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For the People: David vs. Alex G1 Journal

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Entry # Time Turn Player Title Entry
114 6/27/2017 11:39:00 PM Spring 1865 Confederate Message Hm. sorry about the spam, David; I thought that might delete the game (which would save me space in my "My Games"). If you could delete this when you have a chance, I'd appreciate it!
113 6/27/2017 11:38:00 PM Spring 1865 Confederate End Turn
112 6/27/2017 11:38:00 PM Spring 1865 Confederate End Turn
111 6/27/2017 11:38:00 PM Spring 1865 Confederate End Turn
110 6/27/2017 11:38:00 PM Fall 1864 Confederate End Turn
109 6/27/2017 11:38:00 PM Summer 1864 Confederate End Turn
108 6/27/2017 11:38:00 PM Spring 1864 Confederate End Turn
107 6/27/2017 11:38:00 PM Fall 1863 Confederate End Turn
106 6/27/2017 11:38:00 PM Summer 1863 Confederate End Turn
105 6/27/2017 11:38:00 PM Spring 1863 Confederate End Turn
104 6/27/2017 11:38:00 PM Fall 1862 Confederate End Turn
103 6/27/2017 11:38:00 PM Summer 1862 Confederate End Turn
102 6/27/2017 11:37:00 PM Spring 1862 Confederate End Turn
101 6/27/2017 11:37:00 PM Fall 1861 Confederate End Turn
100 6/27/2017 11:37:00 PM Summer 1861 Confederate End Turn Deck was reshuffled.

99 6/26/2017 12:12:00 PM Summer 1861 Confederate Message Hi David,
No problem. Thanks for the game! Let me know if you'd like to play another at some point.
Alex
98 6/25/2017 3:00:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Message Hi Alex. I went ahead a started a couple of other PBeM games. I appreciate the game of For the People and I enjoyed playing with you. Thanks for your patience. Anyway, I think I'm at my limit for PBeM games at the moment. Maybe in a month or so we can coordinate something else to play. Take care.
97 6/22/2017 9:57:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Message Yes. Losing Stuart with his cav advantage was indeed a big loss as well.
96 6/22/2017 4:39:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Message Probably should have put 5 or 6 in Manassas on the Strat move though
95 6/22/2017 4:37:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Message Okay. I'm travelling til Sunday night but I'll set it up then.

The McDowell roll was indeed devastating... if that intercept fails (and I don't roll a 1), it's 6 less Union SPs...
94 6/22/2017 4:33:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Message Okay. Let's switch sides. I better get to bed (this game is killing me...), so let's set it up tomorrow.
93 6/22/2017 4:30:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Message You got really unlucky with McDowell's interception roll. That was a game changer. Then, the AotP went on an unstoppable tear. Don't think you will see that repeated too often.
92 6/22/2017 4:28:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Message I think I made you game owner somehow, but I'll concede. Do you want to play same sides or swap? I don't have a preference given how short that was...
91 6/22/2017 4:27:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Message Oh I didn't even recall the lack of reinforcements turn 3....

I guess there really was no way back after that campaign. Let's call it and rematch.
90 6/22/2017 4:26:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Set Deck Reshuffle Deck will be reshuffled before next deal
89 6/22/2017 4:26:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Play Strategy card as Operations #127: 2 / Brooklyn Navy Yard Conversions
The Union blockade level is increased by one. Remove from deck if event is played.

Message from Confederate:
AJ activates and drops 1 in Bowling Green, Lebanon, and Lexington, converts KY.

KY and WV go CSA.

To you for reinforcements
88 6/22/2017 4:24:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Message With no reinforcements arriving on turn 3, not sure how the CSA can overcome that turn. I haven't played the game enough to know for certain, but we can call the game at any point you feel that it's unwinnable for the csa. Either way is fine with me.
87 6/22/2017 4:20:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Message Ah, correct on Buell.

I could/should have probably saved it by moving East when Pope took over, but my greed got the better of me... Here I was feeling strong in the East marching into Frederick, and now the entire position has collapsed...
86 6/22/2017 4:17:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Play Strategy card as Operations #82: 3 / Foreign Intervention - Reshuffle/Remove
Either player can play this card as an EC when Confederate SW is 110+. If this is the last card in a players hand or the second to last and the player holds the Emancipation Proclamation, if the condition is met, it must be played as an EC, if not it can be played as an OC. EFFECTS: 1. Union Blockade reduced by one (cannot become greater than 4 for the remainder of the game). 2. Union -2 SP Reinforcements for the remainder of the game (Union choice). 3. Union SW reduced by 10. Remove from deck if event is played. If card is played as an OC or discarded re-shuffle deck at end of the Strategy Phase.

Message from Union:
I had a back up plan with my next card, so I'm not sure anything could have stopped the fall of Richmond. I will be moving the AotP, but first I wanted to clarify Beull. I had a high force ratio, so no attacker general casualty roll. I will return him to the AotP. Army of the Potomac (1) will move into Richmond. I don't think an undefended fort with two generals does anything, so I will convert Richmond (2). 2 generals to time track. Destroyed resource marker placed. Fort removed. SW Effect. Union +1, CSA -1 for the fort. Union +12, CSA -12 for destroying the resource space. -15 sw for the CSA for moving its capital. Union +2 SW for fortunes of war. Net SW is Union +15 and CSA -28. AotP will continue it move back to hanover (3), then to gordonsville (4)convert (5), then to culpepper (6).
85 6/22/2017 3:50:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Play Strategy card as Operations #11: 2 / Nathaniel Lyon
Union places or flips three PC markers in Missouri. The spaces may not contain Confederate SPs or forts.

Message from Confederate:
I rolled the dice on you not getting a 5-6 and lost....

2 PCs in WV, your move
84 6/22/2017 3:45:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Message Buell dies
83 6/22/2017 3:45:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Die roll request Request: 3-sided die x 1

2


Message from Confederate:
1 Halleck
2 Buell
3 McClellan
82 6/22/2017 3:43:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Die roll request Request: 6-sided die x 2

1
5


Message from Confederate:
General Casualty Rolls

US 1-3
CSA 1
81 6/22/2017 3:43:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Message 3*-3 result. Devastating 5 roll for the Union...

CSA wins the tie due to the resource space.
80 6/22/2017 3:41:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Die roll request Request: 6-sided die x 2

5
5


Message from Confederate:
Whoops, didn't roll enough dice...

USA +5
CSA +4
79 6/22/2017 3:40:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Die roll request Request: 6-sided die x 1

3


Message from Confederate:
Welp, here goes...

Battle of Richmond

USA +5
CSA +4
78 6/22/2017 3:32:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Play Strategy card as Operations #70: 2 / Gustavus Fox, Ironclad Building Program
The Union Amphibious Assault modifier is increased by two.

Message from Union:
Pope and the AotP move on Richmond. To Manassas (1) pick up McClellan and 2sp, to Fredericksburg (2), convert PC (3), to Hanover (4) possible interception. If unsuccessful convert (5) and attack Richmond with the 6th move. CSA will have a +4 drm in either location since they either get +2 for the fort or +2 for the interception. Union drm will be +5 (3 for generals and +2 for ratio). Could also try a retreat. Back to you to decide.
77 6/22/2017 3:07:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Play Strategy card as Operations #30: 3 / Glory Hallelujah
Union immediately receives three SPs for raising Negro troops. The SPs can be placed in any Union controlled space (even one without a LOC) that doesn’t contain a Confederate SP or fort.

Message from Confederate:
PCs in Wheeling, Franklin WV and Rollin MO
76 6/22/2017 2:53:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Message It doesn't affect my SW, just yours
75 6/22/2017 2:21:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Play Strategy card as Operations #62: 2 / Financial Crisis
Union SW is reduced by two.

Message from Union:
Relieving McDowell from command of the AotP. Pope will take over. McDowell to the turn track. -6 SW for McDowell and -4 more jumping over Buell and Halleck = -10 and -3 more for change of fortune. -13 total. CSA + 10 + 2 more for change of fortune= +12 total
74 6/22/2017 1:00:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Play Strategy card as Operations #72: 2 / John Ericsson's Monitor Fleet
The Union Amphibious Assault modifier is increased by two.

Message from Confederate:
PCs in Frankfort and Somerset KY
73 6/22/2017 12:59:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Message Hi David,

No problem! Actually, Cairo can support Banks; an ungarrisoned/empty fort can only support 1 general, but otherwise the normal general stacking rules apply. There are 3SPs in Cairo, so Banks is fine. I'll put him there, but if you'd prefer him in DC that's fine too, feel free to adjust on your move.
72 6/21/2017 10:08:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Message Sorry Alex. I reread the rules for generals. It appears that a fort can support one general, so I will move Banks to Washington, dc instead of cairo. You can fix it in your next file. Thanks
71 6/21/2017 8:12:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Message Oops. I remember reading that too. Let's move him to cairo instead.
70 6/21/2017 1:58:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Message Rosencrans to Bloomington is legal; Banks to Sabine is not, as AoP is not in a port, and general reorg moves can only use one of: infinite rail, sea move, or 10 spaces rail+road.

Feel free to change your move if Banks not being able to Sabine means you don't want to general reorg.
69 6/21/2017 12:08:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Play Strategy card as Operations #53: 1 / CSS Arkansas
Confederate may place one Ironclad in a controlled port or coastal fort space.

Message from Union:
Reorg Move. From the AOTP, Banks to Sabine City and Rosecrans to Bloomington.
68 6/20/2017 4:12:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Message Same for me :) Given that you're learning, not a big deal to roll it back, but I'll leave the choice up to you. Either way my move will be the same.
67 6/20/2017 4:06:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Message Alright. I will proceed with my next move tomorrow. If I want to be functional at work tomorrow, I better hit the sack.
66 6/20/2017 4:04:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Message I see now. 7.6 says the attacker must retreat back to the hex it originated from. Missed that. Would have been better to go through Manassas then for sure, but live and learn. Butler pays the ultimate price for his mistake.
65 6/20/2017 3:59:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Message Ah, missed the PC.

So, we can alter your previous move if you like, but as logged you are still OOS per #2 above; you are attacking out of Culpeper (You move Culpeper--> Strasburg, I intercept into Strasburg first, so the battle is Butler moving Culpeper-->Strasburg) and Culpeper does not have a PC. An attacking force must trace through the space it is attacking from first, so here, Culpeper.

On another note, if you attacked from Culpeper (as in the log) you would also need to retreat back into Culpeper. Do you want to change the move to navigate through Manassas before moving into Strasburg?
64 6/20/2017 3:49:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Message Manassas does have a union PC. I converted it with my 2nd AotP move. And, the battle occurred in Strasburg due. I think I see what you're saying though. It looks like I incorrect followed the retreat rules in 7.6. Butler was supposed to follow Rule 1 and retreat to Manasses, not to Culpepper where he would take another SP loss. Let me know if you agree and I'll add Butler back in +sp into Manassas.
63 6/20/2017 3:42:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Message (Happy to clarify anything if any of that was unclear)
62 6/20/2017 3:42:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Message Ah, so two things here:

First, you have to have PCs in a space to trace supply through it; so to trace through Manassas, it would need to have a US PC already. (Note that McClellan would defend in supply in Manassas because defenders don't have to trace THROUGH the space in which they defend).

"All spaces of the path (except the space of the force)
must be friendly-controlled or neutral, and free of enemy SPs
or forts."
In the glossary - "Political control is gained by
players maneuvering military forces and manipulating political
events to spread his side’s strategic ascendancy. Political control
markers also denote lines of communication."

Basically, PCs are needed for LoC, and in addition, you cannot trace through enemy SPs.

Another somewhat important note is that the attacker's LoC must start from the space from which they launch the attack; meaning that even with a PC in Manassas, the attack would be OOS because it would trace through Culpeper.
61 6/20/2017 3:37:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Message No understanding how Butler is OOS when Strasburg connects to Manassas which is union controlled. Maybe I'm missing something about LOS.

60 6/20/2017 3:34:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Play Strategy card as Operations #67: 2 / J.B. Eads, Riverine Ironclads
The Union Amphibious Assault modifier is increased by two.

Message from Confederate:
Going to make a provisional move based on 0-2 result last turn (Butler to Turn Track).

JJ activates, moves to Richmond with his 1SP.
59 6/20/2017 3:11:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Message Want to confirm it is 0-2 (+2 intercept, +2 JJ, +2 Butler OOS) result before I move
58 6/20/2017 3:08:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Message Butler is OOS, however, which should mean +6 for CSA...
57 6/20/2017 3:07:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Message Not sure why JJ is OOS?
56 6/20/2017 3:07:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Message After looking at the map, I don't think Johnston is OOS any longer due to the interception. Losses are Union 1 and CSA zero. Butler stopped in Strasburg.
End of Turn. Back to the CSA.
55 6/20/2017 3:01:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Die roll request Request: 6-sided die x 2

3
5


Message from Union:
Battle in Strasburg. Union + 2 drm (oos). CSA +4 drm (2 for Johnston and 2 for intercept). Union 1st die, CSA 2nd die. Small battle.
54 6/20/2017 2:57:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Die roll request Request: 6-sided die x 1

1


Message from Union:
Jay Johnson, intercept attempt. Success on roll of 1-2.
53 6/20/2017 2:57:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Message Leg 2
I don't believe Bragg can intercept since his defensive is zero. I will activate Butler to Williamsburg, Hanover, Gordonsville, Culpepper, then Strasburg for 5 total movement. I am assuming you will try and intercept, so I will roll that for you.
52 6/20/2017 2:37:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Message 1 loss for the Union. 2 losses for CSA. Beauregard has been eliminated. Losses adjusted. AotP will move back down to Frederick for its 6th move. I will start a new file for the 2nd leg.
51 6/20/2017 2:34:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Die roll request Request: 6-sided die x 2

2
1


Message from Union:
Beau to Gettysburg. AotP will press the attack on Gettysburg with its 5th move without converting Frederick. Union drm +3 (ratio) + 3 (generals) and +2 (oos) = +8 total. Union is +1 (general). I believe the AotP is still in supply even though Frederick is Rebel controlled. Union 1st die, CSA 2nd die.
50 6/20/2017 1:58:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Message Beauregard to Gettysburg.... The AoP is on quite a roll!
49 6/20/2017 1:57:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Message 2sp for the csa and 2* sp for the union. Two losses each, but the union wins the battle. Adjusted sp in the file. you have two retreat options, so I will send the file back to you. I will remove 1 more sp for retreating into an enemy controlled space for a total of -3 sp for the csa. Will Beauregard retreat to Baltimore or Gettysburg?
48 6/20/2017 1:42:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Die roll request Request: 6-sided die x 2

3
6


Message from Union:
Okay then rolling the Battle of Frederick. Union +5drm, CSA +1 drm. Attacker (union) 1st die roll. Defender (CSA) 2nd die roll. Medium battle.
47 6/20/2017 1:31:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Message You are indeed correct. McDowell's interception is looming large....
46 6/20/2017 1:24:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Message AotP can continue its move. Place PC in manassas for move 2. Adjusting AotP -3 sp from battle. AOTP will drop 2 sp and General McClellan in Manassas. AotP move back to Washington (3). AotP will then attack Beauregard in Frederick for move (4). If I'm reading the rules correctly, I don't think you can do a retreat before battle since there are no friendly or neutral spaces. If that's true, then the union's drm will be +2 (out of supply) +3 (generals) = +5 total. Rebel's drm is +1 Beauregard. Medium battle. Back to you to make sure I didn't miss anything.
45 6/20/2017 12:46:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Message 3 losses each. * Union wins the medium battle. adjusted force in file. No attacker general die roll due to high force ratio. Fort destroyed and returned to turn track. Strategic will adjusted. +1union, -1 csa, +2 union SW and -3 CSA SW due to a change in the fortunes of war. Net effect=+3 sw union and -4 sw csa. Placing Stuart on the Game 5 turn track since his entire force was eliminated. I will continue move in the next message.
44 6/20/2017 12:24:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Die roll request Request: 6-sided die x 2

6
4


Message from Union:
Hmm. Was expecting a retreat at least. Union moving into Manassas. Union +4 (force ratio), +3 (Commanding General plus 2 subordinates)= +7 total. Rebs +2 (fort), +2 for Stuart= +4 total. Attacker (Union) 1st die and defender (Rebs) 2nd die.
43 6/19/2017 11:55:00 PM Summer 1861 Confederate Message Both unsuccessful. Feel free to roll combat
42 6/19/2017 11:55:00 PM Summer 1861 Confederate Die roll request Request: 6-sided die x 1

6


Message from Confederate:
Next I'll roll for Stuart retreat option...
41 6/19/2017 11:52:00 PM Summer 1861 Confederate Die roll request Request: 6-sided die x 1

4


Message from Confederate:
I'll start by trying to intercept with Beauregard.... only successful on a 1
40 6/19/2017 11:34:00 PM Summer 1861 Union Play Strategy card as Event #99: 3 / Minor Campaign
Conduct up to two moves or conduct one special army-size naval move. No SP, general, or army marker may be moved twice with the same campaign card. You must move a different force each move.

Message from Union:
Really had to give this one some thought before playing. Tough choices. Lots of possible outcomes.

I've decided to activate the AotP in Washington for the first leg and attack Manassas with the full force of 15 sp. Back to you to determine whether you will stand, retreat, intercept, or perhaps something else entirely.
39 6/19/2017 2:15:00 AM Summer 1861 Union Draw Strategy cards 5 cards drawn.

38 6/19/2017 1:29:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Message Feel free to draw cards.

Union can go first (CSA not starting with a campaign)
37 6/19/2017 1:29:00 AM Summer 1861 Confederate Draw Strategy cards 5 cards drawn.

36 6/19/2017 1:29:00 AM Spring 1861 Confederate End Turn
35 6/19/2017 1:28:00 AM Spring 1861 Confederate Die roll request Request: 999-sided die x 2

244
342


Message from Confederate:
Stuart to Manassas
(you can choose Cav separately from regular generals; and I only have stuart, so no need for roll)

Bragg
Smith

Highest to Lowest:
Columbus, KY
Richmond, VA
34 6/19/2017 1:24:00 AM Spring 1861 Confederate Message Sorry, ignore that; accidentally opened two tabs of ACTS at once and played a card into the wrong game
33 6/19/2017 1:23:00 AM Spring 1861 Confederate Discard Strategy card Message from Confederate:
32 6/19/2017 1:23:00 AM Spring 1861 Confederate Return Strategy card to hand #78: 3 / Personal Advisor

Message from Confederate:
31 6/19/2017 1:23:00 AM Spring 1861 Confederate Play Strategy card as Operations #78: 3 / Personal Advisor
Either player may remove or demote from army command one general for no SW penalty. Penalties for promoting a general with a lower political value still apply. OR remove ANY non-commanding general (even second in commands) from the game.

Message from Confederate:
AoT activates and moves to Harper's Ferry, and then Chambersburg; reaction?
30 6/18/2017 5:41:00 PM Spring 1861 Union Message Burnside to Cairo. Rest to Washington.
29 6/18/2017 5:40:00 PM Spring 1861 Union Die roll request Request: 999-sided die x 7

799
423
396
388
367
503
65


Message from Union:
Thanks for the clarification.

Here are the generals is order (alphabetically in the order of the die rolls)
Burnside
Banks
Buell
Halleck
Pope
Rosecrans
McClellan

Here are the locations Highest (1 general) Lowest (Rest of the Generals)
Cairo
Washington, DC
28 6/18/2017 2:48:00 PM Spring 1861 Confederate Message (Mixed up Charlie and Albert, but that's the idea!)
27 6/18/2017 2:47:00 PM Spring 1861 Confederate Message So this would be Dan to AoP, Bob to Cairo IL, Charlie to Sabine City, and Albert to Harper's Ferry
26 6/18/2017 2:46:00 PM Spring 1861 Confederate Die roll request Request: 999-sided die x 4

647
788
582
985


Message from Confederate:
Hi David,

You can place randomly by using the dice roll feature. I'll do a sample version for 4 generals.

First you'll list the generals (the dice rolls will apply to them in this order):
Albert
Bob
Charlie
Dan

Then you list the placements:
From highest to lowest:
AoP
Cairo, IL
Sabine City, TX
Harper's Ferry
25 6/18/2017 12:04:00 PM Spring 1861 Union Message Yes. Sorry. I looked it over and I'm not sure how I would go about doing random general placement. I would to place 1 general in cairo and the rest in Washington, DC if you want to go ahead and do mine as an example.
24 6/18/2017 12:55:00 AM Spring 1861 Confederate Message Let me know if you're unfamiliar with how to do general placement by ACTS (die rolls to randomize)
23 6/18/2017 12:23:00 AM Spring 1861 Confederate Message All well done! A big intercept for McDowell.

To you for strategic moves
22 6/17/2017 8:15:00 PM Spring 1861 Union Message Union Reinforcements arrive. 8 sp in Washington. Moving AotP up 8 from 3 to 11. 6 sp in central. All 6 in Bloomington. 4 sp in West. All 4 in Cairo. Back to you for Reb reinforcements.
21 6/17/2017 7:57:00 PM Spring 1861 Union Message PC Phase. Place 1 CSA pc in Frederick. Placing 1 Union pc in Sabine City. PC Phase finished. Attrition Phase. -1 CSA sp in Frederick and -1 Union sp in DC. Attrition finished. No foraging. End of turn. New File for reinforcements.

20 6/17/2017 7:43:00 PM Spring 1861 Union Message Union loses 2sp and Rebs lose 1sp. Reb win the battle and take Frederick. Reading the rules it appears that McDowell still temporarily saved the day as Bueregard's forces were not twice the size of McDowell's forces. Therefore they cannot continue moving. Ending the file here and will start a new file for the next phases.
19 6/17/2017 7:27:00 PM Spring 1861 Union Die roll request Request: 6-sided die x 2

5
3


Message from Union:
Wow. McDowell tries to save the day with a lucky intercept. Since you sent the file back to me, I will roll the battle for practice. Reb attackers have 7sp with a +1 drm from Beau. The Union defenders have 6sp with a +3 drm (1 for McD and 2 for interception). Medium battle. I will roll two die. Reb attacker first die and Union defender 2nd die.
18 6/17/2017 2:40:00 PM Spring 1861 Confederate Die roll request Request: 6-sided die x 1

1


Message from Confederate:
McDowell Intercept Opportunity on a 1
17 6/17/2017 2:40:00 PM Spring 1861 Confederate Play Strategy card as Event #101: 3 / Chickamauga
Confederate Player may move 5 SPs using Strategic Movement (rail connections only) to the same space with a Confederate General who is then activated and must attempt to enter a space with at least one or more Union SPs or fort. If a general casualty occurs in a battle caused by this card, the Commanding General is eligible, this is an exception to the rules. See 4.5.

Message from Confederate:
4 SP rail to Manassas and PGT Beauregard attacks Frederick
16 6/17/2017 9:22:00 AM Spring 1861 Union Play Strategy card as Operations #32: 3 / Dixie Land
Confederate defiance against the “War of Northern Aggression” hardens. Increase Confederate SW by three points.

Message from Union:
pc in grafton, wv, parkersburg, wv, and lexington, ky
15 6/16/2017 3:27:00 AM Spring 1861 Confederate Message 1PC to Paducah, KY

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