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Entry # Time Turn Player Title Entry
371 3/20/2018 7:22:00 PM Turn 1 Aristocrats Message Commitment note added.
370 3/20/2018 10:07:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Demos committed.

Mike, you said in your log that you weren't moving units?....but that wouldn't be decided until after you commit and reveal Strategos.
369 3/19/2018 2:19:00 AM Turn 1 Eurypontid Message
We be fightin in Boetia. Please allocate your strats
368 3/17/2018 8:01:00 AM Turn 1 Agiad Message Eury up (pun intended) for military in Boeotia.
367 3/17/2018 6:59:00 AM Turn 1 Aristocrats Message Agiad up.
366 3/16/2018 7:31:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message You can if it's uncontested but it would usually be a waste. I guess a higher Staratgos commitment would let you bring in units from other theatres, if that had any strategic advantage (e.g. if you suspected an enemy issue later in your home City State theatre queue and you were wanting to reinforce above your city state levy.

365 3/16/2018 6:03:00 AM Turn 1 Aristocrats Message Thanks. My question was if you would ever spend more than 1 strategos on a Military issue in your (friendly-controlled, uncontested) city state.
364 3/15/2018 11:14:00 PM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Yes Randy, minimum expenditure to resolve a Military issue is 1 Strategos, even in your own City State. In fact, you're obliged to spend 1 (as long as you have any left) even if you want to cancel it (I think Mike might have done this last turn?).

And yes, there are circumstances where you might want to spend up to the full 5 Strategos allowed to you as commanding general. If there were enemy units in your city state, you'd get your City State unit build and then perform a Military Expedition to battle as you would in any other theatre, maybe even pulling in reinforcements from other theatres, up to your side's total Strategos commitment.
363 3/15/2018 9:10:00 PM Turn 1 Aristocrats Message Spent. The requirement to spend 1 Strategos for a Military Issue in your City State is pretty well hidden in the rules. Would you even spend more than 1 for this?
362 3/15/2018 8:31:00 PM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Just a reminder, Randy. You need to pay 1 Strategos to resolve your Military issue in Athens
361 3/15/2018 7:10:00 PM Turn 1 Aristocrats Message Military in Athens. Built 1 naval unit, 2 land units.
Back to Agiad.
360 3/15/2018 4:46:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Issue resolved in Boeotia

Aristocrats up

359 3/15/2018 2:21:00 AM Turn 1 Agiad Message Demagogues are up.
358 3/14/2018 3:01:00 PM Turn 1 Aristocrats Message Built 2 League naval units in Boeotia.
Revealed Oracle in Athens, remove an enemy League naval unit in Boeotia.
Back to Agiad.
357 3/13/2018 4:51:00 PM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Revealed Aristocrats' League in Boeotia for Randy to resolve, and then it's The Aristocrats' turn to reveal.
356 3/13/2018 3:51:00 PM Turn 1 Agiad Message Demagogues are up.
355 3/13/2018 2:46:00 PM Turn 1 Aristocrats Message Placed last issue also in Boeotia.
Agiads up for first resolution.
354 3/12/2018 3:34:00 PM Turn 1 Demagogue Message My last issue in Boeotia.

Aristocrats should have one more issue to place, then we're ready to go to issue resolution.
353 3/12/2018 10:49:00 AM Turn 1 Aristocrats Message Issue in Athens. Back to Agiad.
352 3/12/2018 7:00:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Corinth getting a lot of love.

Aristocrats up.

Randy, there's a face up issue of yours in the assembly area of the map.....not sure what it's doing there.
351 3/11/2018 5:18:00 PM Turn 1 Agiad Message Demagogue up
350 3/11/2018 4:33:00 PM Turn 1 Aristocrats Message Issue in Corinth. Back to Agiad.
349 3/11/2018 7:09:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Demos Issue in Sicily.

Aristocrats up
348 3/11/2018 3:53:00 AM Turn 1 Eurypontid Message and now I'm out of things
347 3/9/2018 2:19:00 AM Turn 1 Agiad Message Eurys are up.
346 3/8/2018 6:46:00 PM Turn 1 Aristocrats Message Back to Agiad.
345 3/8/2018 4:53:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Issue placed I Sicily. Aristos up
344 3/7/2018 8:16:00 AM Turn 1 Eurypontid Message Demos again
343 3/7/2018 3:09:00 AM Turn 1 Agiad Message Back to Eury
342 3/6/2018 7:58:00 PM Turn 1 Aristocrats Message Back to Agiad.
341 3/6/2018 6:26:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Demos done, Aristocrats are up.

Randy, I've drawn both our Strategos. You'll just need to discard your hand.
340 3/6/2018 6:07:00 AM Turn 1 Eurypontid Message Demos is up
339 3/6/2018 5:36:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Thanks, Thierry.

Randy and I have checked through the deck, discards and Entourages to narrow down that culprit masked card.

It's Pandionis III (Aristocrats/Iolcus):
Base value 1
Aristocrats (if controlling faction) +3 Diplomacy, 1 Strategos
Demagogues (of controlling faction) +3 War/Peace, 1 Strategos

I'll drop it back in the Athenian draw deck on my turn. If it flips from the battle deck, or next turn from the political deck, we'll know what it is and can just play it as is for its stats.

Euros up next, I think.
338 3/6/2018 3:36:00 AM Turn 1 Agiad Message Done.
337 3/5/2018 4:45:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Thanks, Thierry. Ouch. That is one of the tensions of the game....debate too vigorously and you can come out empty for the theatre phase (although sometimes that's the way the cards fall and there's nothing you can do about it).

Looking at your final log, honour order should be:

Agiad - Euros-Demos-Aristos

Can we go from your final log, as you'll be first in honour order? We also had some sort of catastrophic Strategos pool glitch and it would be good to start from a clean slate.

What you would need to update in your log is:

1. Our theatre issues - 2 x League, 1 x Military for the Demagogues
1 x Military, 1 x League, 1 x Oracle for the Aristocrats.
(I have a War/Peace which will have no effect, so could be returned to the pool. Randy had a Citizenship which we've resolved pre-theatre and as a unique issue it needs to be discarded from the game)

2. The only honour shift is Aristocrats from 14 to 16 for resolving the Citizenship

3. Randy's Citizenship changed the League base in Ionia to a blue Athenian one and added a blue Athenian naval there.

4. There's a glitch with a masked Athenian card that we left on the map. Could you please return it to our deck? I'm hoping it will eventually "unglitch" but maybe if we draw it again and it's still buggy we should put it to the side. I'm tempted to go through the deck off log and compare it to my actual deck to find out which card it is.

Once you've done that you could place the first issue, Thierry. We'll discard our cards and take our Strategos when our turns come.
336 3/5/2018 4:30:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Sorry, hit send too early. If you guys are planning on playing any more COIN PBEM, Falling Sky or Pendragon (or any of them), and need a fourth, LMK (I'm a Pericles know-it-all but a COIN novice, so I'll be quieter, I promise :)
335 3/5/2018 4:25:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message That's pretty ambitious, Mike! Cuba Libre is at the simpler end of things, I understand. I'd try any COIN, now that I know what they're about, but subject matter is important for which ones I'd buy....Ancients is my passion, so Falling Sky and Pendragon appealed to me. I'm sure there will be more (they seem to be pumping them out).
334 3/5/2018 3:45:00 AM Turn 1 Agiad Message Sparta is done. It has been a stalemate on (too) many issues.
333 3/5/2018 12:46:00 AM Turn 1 Eurypontid Message I'm in another group trying to play through all the COIN games. Seems I like some better than others. I found Liberty Or Death kind of Dull and Adrian Abyss just long. So Far Cuba Libre is still my favorite!
332 3/4/2018 3:18:00 AM Turn 1 Agiad Message Agree with Randy about COIN.

PBEM is great for those.
331 3/3/2018 8:19:00 PM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Randy and I have finished our assembly live and it's in Dropbox....File 154A (for Athens :). Very tight...equal issues and oratory honour and had to go to Favour of the Assembly tie break, so Aristocrats have kept control with a narrow mandate.

There were a couple of glitches in our log.....Randy's leader is stuck masked and there's a masked card from the deck that neither of us can activate. We've returned it to the deck but it's possible it will turn up still glitches from the battle deck.

We also had 3 Start disappear from our pool when I went to draw them. I've borrowed done from the Ravages of War discards but it shouldn't matter....I think we'll be using the Spartan log so it won't have happened.

Let us know when you guys are finished and we'll give you the details to update your log.
330 3/3/2018 6:46:00 PM Turn 1 Aristocrats Message I've played several different COIN games by e-mail and it works great (yes, much better than Pericles).
329 3/3/2018 6:37:00 PM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Off topic, gents, but I just played Falling Sky for the second time yesterday. I played first a year ago and have no other COIN experience, so it didn't click, but I was getting it yesterday and really enjoyed it.

When I was trawling the BGG forum looking for rules answers I noticed in a thread that a couple of you are in a PBEM game of it. I was wondering how well it plays PBEM. I imagine there are some interrupts, such as a player declaring whether they will retreat from battle, but otherwise player turns look like they would mostly be completed without need for other player interaction, which makes it look like it would be well suited to PBEM....probably more than Pericles.
328 3/1/2018 12:22:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Sorry to group mail.

Randy, I thought I'd emailed you but have found it stuck unsent in my outbox. My wife has blocked our proposed meet up time with a Rumours marker (the rumour being that I'm following her around with my credit card while she furniture shops....I know what I'd rather be doing :).

I should be able to do the same time on Saturday or Sunday (your evenings) if either suits you. If not, could I suggest we start PBEM and we can flip to live if a widow opens up?
327 2/22/2018 2:11:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Yes, ready to go from File 153
326 2/22/2018 1:54:00 AM Turn 1 Agiad Message Starting from 153 - Demos hand
325 2/22/2018 1:53:00 AM Turn 1 Agiad Message Just to be sure : we're ready to split files ?
324 2/22/2018 1:00:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Thanks Randy. I've done mine so we're ready to go.

I drew another card I couldn't interact with....face down, like the problem with the leaders. It may have been one of your previous cards. I've left it on the map. Would you mind seeing if you can unmask it in your next turn? If not, we should just move it to the discard pile. If you can unmask it, we should return it to the draw deck.

Ready for the assembly phase.
323 2/21/2018 3:36:00 PM Turn 1 Aristocrats Message OK, file redone.
322 2/21/2018 12:30:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Sorry Randy, I think you'll have to do it again. The cards you discarded were still in the discard pile, not in the draw deck when you drew your new hand. You can either place them from the discard pile into the draw deck one by one (which automatically shuffles them) or hit the Create Political Decks in the auto functions menu, which will shuffle all unmasked cards on the board into the decks.

I've just encountered the issue with the masked, face down leader for the first time myself in another game. It doesn't seem to be platform specific and is completely random.

I agree entirely that the way the Entourage is worded in the rules is confusing, that sentence you quoted in particular. Mark Herman confirmed this here....


......although the explanation of why this sentence in the rules says "may" is pretty unconvincing. I think it should be changed if the rules are ever updated.

In essence, before going into the assembly you must have only 7 cards left in your hand, including your leader.....6 for the 6 debates and one for the Strategy Board. As you draw up to 9, this means, in most cases, that you'll be discarding 3 into your Entourage. For players, the only exception is if you used your Brains Trust the previous turn, in which case what's left of your previous Entourage is discarded and you only get to draw 6 cards, not 9, so no Entourage is formed.

If you're playing solo, the Phormio bot doesn't follow this rule. He never forms an Entourage and just debates from his full 9 card hand.
321 2/20/2018 4:19:00 PM Turn 1 Aristocrats Message Done. It's not obvious that an entourage is mandatory with 9 cards. 5.21 say "He _may_ then create a new entourage". 5.23 does sound mandatory, but it's unclear.
320 2/20/2018 12:44:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Randy, I think it's best if we do this from the most recent file, because it contains the Spartan hands and Entourages and the plague losses. I've made a new file 151, in which I've discarded all my cards and reshuffled them into the deck. If you do the same from that file (remembering to unmask them because it seems they stay masked when they go that way into the draw deck), then you can start fresh and draw your new hand and form your Entourage. When you've done that I'll follow and we'll be good to go for the Assembly.

Sorry to the Spartans for the delay. Don't know what went wrong there. Athenian politics are pretty crazy :)
319 2/19/2018 5:28:00 PM Turn 1 Aristocrats Message That would be the cleanest option, I'm for it. So should I start with file 147?
318 2/19/2018 4:20:00 PM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Sorry, Randy, I should have been clearer. By binning I meant us both discarding our hands, reshuffling the deck and starting fresh. It was only a suggestion because something's gone astray....you're not sure where the cards in your hand came from? I'm okay to continue as is if you're happy to proceed with the hand you have.
317 2/19/2018 5:53:00 AM Turn 1 Aristocrats Message Not sure what you mean by "bin it".
316 2/19/2018 12:51:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Thanks, Thierry. I think sometimes there's a lag with files entering Dropbox, which I assume is what has happened.

Randy, I'm not sure how your hand would have already had cards in it. The module does do some strange things on occasion. A few options...you keep that hand, bin it to make a new draw deck and draw a fresh hand, or we start from scratch and I bin my cards to make a clean slate (assuming something's gone seriously astray with the logs). Whichever way you go, you'll need to form an Entourage when you fill your hand.
315 2/18/2018 8:31:00 AM Turn 1 Agiad Message Sorry Brent.

I started from the last file which was in the folder and yours wasn't there obviously.
314 2/18/2018 7:04:00 AM Turn 1 Aristocrats Message I was surprised to see my hand mostly full - I thought it was some automatic thing you had done. I'll redo my draw and discards - which file should I start with?
313 2/18/2018 5:46:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Also, when I reshuffled the Athenian decks, the Aristocrats' cards went in masked because they weren't unmasked when discarded from the Entourage. I assumed they would become unmasked in the new draw deck but they obviously aren't, because I drew one that I couldn't see or unmask and had to put it back in the deck to draw a new one. Important to make sure discards are unmasked so that they don't stay masked when they go into the draw deck.
312 2/18/2018 5:43:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message A bit of confusion.

Thierry, it looks like you didn't follow on for my log 147, meaning that when Randy's followed your log, my old Entourage is still not discarded and the plague losses I'd done didn't stick. Maybe we logged them at the same time.

Randy, I'm not sure what happened in your log. The log text has you only drawing 2 cards? You've stated no Entourage but if you haven't used your Brains Trust the previous turn, you must draw up to 9 cards in your hand and you must form an Entourage with three of them....it's not optional. I'm going to follow on from your log and discard my Entourage again to form a new draw deck, then do my hand and Entourage. If you haven't drawn up to 9, you will need to do that and make an Entourage.

I've also redone the plague losses (file 150)
311 2/17/2018 7:05:00 AM Turn 1 Aristocrats Message Refilled my hand. No entourage. Demagogues are next.
310 2/16/2018 3:31:00 AM Turn 1 Agiad Message Done my hand & entourage. Randy is up.
309 2/15/2018 2:07:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Thanks guys.

I've popped all the Turn 2 logs in their own folder to tidy up the Dropbox folder.

I've taken the liberty of doing the Plague losses....they're all permanent by Ravages of War rules....ouch! One land and naval unit for each side in a contested theatre. That's only Boeotia, so I've removed one Peloponnesian land and naval unit and one Delian naval unit (we had no land). One third naval and land units in Athens rounded up...that's one of each.

I've discarded my whole Entourage and shuffled it into the Athenian deck. Randy, when you've decided whether you want to keep any of your Entourage and shuffled the rest into deck, you're free to draw and choose your new Entourage. I think you have one Strategos to return tp the pool from last turn as well.

When that's done I'll do my hand and Entourage and we'll be ready for our assembly.

308 2/15/2018 12:59:00 AM Turn 1 Eurypontid Message Hey, Sorry Thierry I never saw your email. Somehow I missed it. I remade the deck, discarded my stuff and drew my cards. You should be good now.
307 2/14/2018 12:54:00 PM Turn 1 Agiad Message I tried to get a reaction from Mike but didn't.

I did redeploy & Aristophanes.

Now I need Mike to unmask a card.
306 2/10/2018 4:43:00 PM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Forgot the Aristocrats' 2 honour hit for the ongoing Persian War, which needs to be adjusted in the next log.
305 2/10/2018 4:42:00 PM Turn 1 Demagogue Message I've done the Athenian redeployment (with the Aristocrats' blessing :) and a bit of tidy up.....including fixing our dud Strategos counter and finding our missing Will of the Assembly pawn. I've also discarded the permanently lost Strategos token for each side due to Ravages of War.

Over to the Spartans for Redeployment and remaining Stratgeos discard (plus possible Political Capital) and we will have finished another turn (well done all). You guys could move us straight on into Turn 3 with the Aristophanes draw.
304 2/9/2018 5:52:00 PM Turn 1 Aristocrats Message I think we'll delay the Peace of Callias for now and take the Honor hit.
303 2/8/2018 4:39:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Last issue resolved....a League to build a League base in the Eastern Med.

We're both good for maintenance.

Before we move to redeployment, the Aristocrats have a decision to make, as controlling Athenian faction, about whether or not to end the Persian War (we'll still be good for maintenance even if Randy decides to go for the Peace of Callias option).
302 2/7/2018 4:00:00 PM Turn 1 Aristocrats Message Sorry, I didn't realize it was my turn.
Rumor revealed in Athens. Next up, I think, are the Demagogues.
301 2/7/2018 12:23:00 PM Turn 1 Agiad Message Whose turn is it ? Aristos I think.
300 2/3/2018 8:10:00 AM Turn 1 Eurypontid Message I did a raid! Aristos loose 3 strat, I gain 3 honor
299 2/3/2018 6:19:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message So Mike, let us know what you want to do with that Military issue in Boeotia. If it's an Expedition Assembly we can all start assigning secret Strategos.

In another email game I've been playing there has been a problem with the delayed notes not revealing properly. We've resorted to an honour system where players tell their city state partner what their Strategos commitment is by private email. It's a workaround for a problem we don't seem to have encountered yet in this game but has also turned out to be a very quick way of resolving battles, because it gets around the posting of those extra logs.
298 2/2/2018 8:35:00 AM Turn 1 Agiad Message Done. Mike is up again for a military.
297 2/2/2018 8:20:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Thierry, that was your issue to resolve but it was the Euros' reveal.

So it's the Agiad turn and you're up again for that issue in Boeotia.

296 2/2/2018 7:51:00 AM Turn 1 Agiad Message Resolved. Aristocrats are up.
295 2/2/2018 5:59:00 AM Turn 1 Eurypontid Message League issue in Corinth for Agiad
294 2/1/2018 7:42:00 PM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Oracle resolved in Corinth.

Euros Up
293 2/1/2018 7:27:00 PM Turn 1 Aristocrats Message Rumor revealed. Demagogues are next.
292 2/1/2018 8:19:00 AM Turn 1 Agiad Message Dang, I need new glasses. It was a Rumours. Aristos next.
291 1/31/2018 7:30:00 PM Turn 1 Demagogue Message I checked the last log and there's a Spartan issue at the top of the Naupactus queue, Thierry.
290 1/31/2018 4:16:00 PM Turn 1 Agiad Message I think it's Aristrocrats' turn because Agiad have no marker to reveal.
289 1/29/2018 2:03:00 AM Turn 1 Eurypontid Message I cancled the military one again...sadly just like last time...
288 1/28/2018 9:31:00 PM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Sorry, Mike, no rush, just a reminder. I know it slips through unnoticed sometimes. It's your turn when you're ready.
287 1/25/2018 10:32:00 PM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Military in Eastern Med resolved.

Demos next issue revealed......Rumours in Naupactus.

Euros up.
286 1/25/2018 7:10:00 PM Turn 1 Aristocrats Message Revealed a military issue in East Mediterranean. Demagogues to resolve.
285 1/24/2018 2:30:00 PM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Thanks, Thierry.

Should we just go with that and Randy can proceed from Log 131?

Mike, you could save the issue in Athens for later if it's going to be a dead rubber anyway....and you never know, developments in other theatres may change your plans or save you a Strategos if you're able to make better use of it elsewhere.

It's frustrating to have an issue short circuit like that but I'm finding the critical order of placing and resolving issues to be one of the most intense and enjoyable features of the game.....the bluff and feint and guessing where the enemy has placed issues, the ability to interrupt the enemy's plans and the challenge of avoiding having the same done to you.
284 1/24/2018 10:36:00 AM Turn 1 Agiad Message Yes it was a Rumours
283 1/24/2018 10:25:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Oops. Mike's resolved/cancelled the Athenian Military issue (File 130) and Thierry's resolved the Thessalian one (File 131). We'll have to pick one of those to run from (whichever you guys want). If it's the Thessalian one, it wasn't unmasked before going back to the pool.....I assume it was a Rumours?
282 1/24/2018 4:20:00 AM Turn 1 Agiad Message Changed reveal to Thessalia. Thanks.

Aristocrats are next.
281 1/24/2018 1:59:00 AM Turn 1 Eurypontid Message I think I'm going to have to pay 1 to cancel. This did not work out as I had planned...
280 1/23/2018 5:33:00 PM Turn 1 Demagogue Message There's another Spartan issue in Thessalia, Thierry (sometimes the browns are hard to spot against the land and the Athenian blues are hard to spot against the seas on the Vassal map). Happy for you to back and replay if you need to.

I've made my Strategos commitment for Athens. I can leave it for the battle when it does occur later if you decide to change your reveal to Thessalia now). The Athenian issue is still masked (although we know it's a Euro Military).
279 1/23/2018 3:43:00 PM Turn 1 Agiad Message Actually I had no choice for the marker.

Eurypontid military in Athens.

You're up Mike.
278 1/23/2018 10:12:00 AM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Thanks Mike. I think you might have accidentaly advanced the Eurypontid marker for the 2 honour, not the Agiad.
277 1/23/2018 2:54:00 AM Turn 1 Eurypontid Message Agiad is up, I just uncovered some rumors. I'd suggest not Athens for the reveal...
276 1/21/2018 7:18:00 PM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Just backtracking a bit....

Thierry, the question of whether you get 2 honour for building a Persian base came up in another game I'm playing, and Mark Herman's answer is yes.


.....meaning you have an extra 2 honour when you next log :)
275 1/21/2018 5:18:00 PM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Rumours revealed in Thessalia.

Euros next
274 1/21/2018 3:41:00 PM Turn 1 Aristocrats Message Military issue revealed in Naupactus. Moved 1 naval unit from Athens to Naupactus.
Demagogues are next.
273 1/20/2018 9:51:00 AM Turn 1 Agiad Message Aristocrats are up
272 1/19/2018 8:38:00 PM Turn 1 Demagogue Message Thanks Mike.

So Agiad up?

I didn't tell you before, Mike, because I only noticed at the last minute myself, but by moving on to a naval battle you could have done us major damage, even knowing you would lose it. I asked about it on BGG and Mark Herman confirmed it. Link here:


This opens up a very dangerous strategy option for Sparta that I'd never realised (actually I'm not sure if anyone realised it as I haven't seen it mentioned in any discussions). I've learned something new. This really is a very deep game!

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