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Barbarossa to Berlin: BTB: Tom vs Fred Journal

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Entry # Time Turn Player Title Entry
66 1/27/2018 5:22:00 PM Master ID = 2778 Game Deleted
65 1/27/2018 5:19:00 PM Summer 1941 Allied Message In the meantime, please clean up my ACTS chart by deleting this and our POG game. :-)

64 1/27/2018 5:18:00 PM Summer 1941 Allied Message OK, I will play another BtB game with you. But, I would prefer to keep the Allies so that I can continue to figure out the puzzle.

I will say that this game is definitely frustrating to the newer player and one of the most difficult to pick up against an experienced wargamer that I have played. At least, this is my view based on almost a full 6 action rounds. :-)

I will make a new game in a little while.
63 1/27/2018 5:16:00 PM Summer 1941 Axis Message Yes, I personally do view Stalin dying as a game-ender against an experienced AX player. In almost any situation. Note that he's not dead yet, but the odds were pretty good he was going to go down on my next round.

I'm ok playing again, switching sides. I'll defer to you to set up the game. I'm going to hold off starting anymore POG games though - I have a few in progress that I need to focus on, playing three at once is problematic for me as I get them jumbled up in my head.
62 1/27/2018 2:00:00 PM Summer 1941 Allied Message A re-reading of 7.3 reveals that is obviously the case - the space is "activated" when the OP is spent on the space with the move marker.

Tom - I would like to explore this on the side for a while, but do want to play again. I am happy to go back to POG with you if you like. :-)

That said, if you disagree that Stalin's death (and the 4 VPs that you gain) doesn't equal an inevitable AV in THIS situation, we can go on and I can try to solve the puzzle.

61 1/27/2018 1:57:00 PM Summer 1941 Allied Message So you're saying that since I placed movement markers first, that is the "activation," not when I actually move the stack?

If that is the case, I will have to fold. My understanding is that if Stalin is killed it is game over for the Allies.
60 1/27/2018 1:48:00 PM Summer 1941 Axis Message Supply is determined at the 'instant of activation'. (See 13.1, second sentence.)
59 1/27/2018 1:33:00 PM Summer 1941 Allied Message I am aware of the OOS penalties, however...

I restored supply to Ivanovo when I moved the SUA in Gorki through Ulyanovsk
58 1/27/2018 1:28:00 PM Summer 1941 Axis Message Also note that movement is reduced to 2, max.
57 1/27/2018 1:27:00 PM Summer 1941 Axis Message Spaces with OOS units cost more to activate. (2 OPs in this case.) See 13.41.
56 1/27/2018 12:50:00 PM Summer 1941 Allied Play Strategy card as Operations #3: 2 / Stavka
Cancels any Soviet Orders for this turn

Message from Allied:
T2AL4

2 OPs:

Gorki - SUA to Kuibischev via Ulyanovsk
Ivanovo - Reserve to Kuibischev, RUA to Ryazan

Do what you will...
55 1/27/2018 12:38:00 PM Summer 1941 Axis Play Strategy card as Operations #2: 4 / Von Paulus Pause
Axis places 4 Combat markers in any axis ocupied spaces (include. Multi-nationality spaces). Cancels Su Trench No Retreat option this round. Axis must take 2x 1 OPS rounds on Turn 2. Cancels Winter 42 effects. PREREQ: Play on Turn 1 only. May not play if Barbarossa has been played.

Message from Axis:
T2AX4
Let's make this exciting.

Kalinin: 3PA to Kazan via Rybinsk, Vologda, Sharya, Vyatka
Kharkov: 4PA to Penza via Voronezh, Tambov, Penza, Ulyanovsk
Uman: 1PA to Tambov
Perekop: PZc to Voronezh via Stalino, Voroshilovgrad, Millerovo

** Moscow pocket OOS, Stalin in jeopardy.
54 1/27/2018 10:33:00 AM Summer 1941 Allied Message I mean (4,0)
53 1/27/2018 10:32:00 AM Summer 1941 Allied Message Scratch the Sevastopol move. Instead:

RB - SUA to Moscow (3,0)
52 1/27/2018 10:31:00 AM Summer 1941 Allied Play Strategy card as Strategic Redeployment #16: 5 / Sledgehammer
Beach head: Allied A-B,D. [Br1A], 2x US Corps. PREREQ: Play after US Build-Up. May not play after Torch.

Message from Allied:
T2AL3

SR:

Moscow - Stalin to Kuibischev :-(
Leningrad - SUA to Kuibischev
Moscow - SUA to Gorki
RB - SUA to Ivanovo (5,0)
Sevastopol - SUA to RB (6,0)
51 1/27/2018 10:22:00 AM Summer 1941 Allied Die roll request Request: 6-sided die x 1

1


Message from Allied:
Dnepropetrovsk:

Firing back on 2S
50 1/27/2018 10:06:00 AM Summer 1941 Axis Play Strategy card as Operations #16: 5 / Speer
Allow play of 5th Pz & 6th SS Pz A & Final Production Surge event. PREREQ: May not play after Totaler Krieg.

Message from Axis:
T2AX3
V-L: GE16A to Yaroslavl
B-L: GE(c), GE4A to Orsha-Mogilev
Kiev: 4PA to Nikopol via Cherkassi, Poltava, Kremenchug
Kovel: GE6A to Kiev via Pinsk

Nikopol: Autokill SUa Dnepropetrovsk (fires back at 2s)
4PA advances Dnepropetrovsk, Kharkov
PZc advances Melitopol, Perekop

Supply threats to the Moscow pocket.
49 1/26/2018 8:44:00 PM Summer 1941 Allied Message SU RB (6,0)
48 1/26/2018 8:42:00 PM Summer 1941 Allied Play Strategy card as Event #24: 3 / Soviet Reinforcements
Place Brynsk, Kalinin, & Volkhov Fronts. Place 3x Armies ==> RB.

Message from Allied:
T2AL2

Brynsk and Kalinin to Moscow
Volkhov to Tula
47 1/26/2018 8:38:00 PM Summer 1941 Allied Die roll request Request: 6-sided die x 1

2


Message from Allied:
SUA in Odessa fires back on 2S
46 1/26/2018 8:36:00 PM Summer 1941 Allied Message Well I just learned the hard way about mechanized movement into combat under 10.1...

Man, tanks are so deadly in this game...
45 1/26/2018 7:10:00 PM Summer 1941 Axis Play Strategy card as Operations #23: 4 / Axis Satellites
IT8A ==> Odessa, HU 2A ==> Kiev. PREREQ: May play if Axis controls Kiev & Odessa in Supply.

Message from Axis:
T2AX2
Dvinsk: GE3PA to Kalinin via K-D, Valdai, Rybinsk
Orsha: Autokill SUa Smolensk, no advance.
Lublin: PZc, GE1PA to Galatz via Kovel,T-R
Galatz: Autokill SUa Odessa, you get return fire.
RO4A advances into Odessa
GE1PA advances into Uman
PZc advances to Nikopol via Kirovograd

** Threats to Moscow, Blau spots. **
** Kishinev, Vinnetsa OOS
44 1/26/2018 7:01:00 PM Summer 1941 Axis Message Bah. I got sloppy, forgot to advance GE6A into T-R.
43 1/26/2018 6:35:00 PM Summer 1941 Allied Play Strategy card as Operations #23: 4 / Clearing the Scheldt
Allows Allied use of Antwerp supply PREREQ: May play if the Allies control Antwerp.

Message from Allied:
T2AL1

4 OPs:

Lwow - SWMF to Vinnitsa via Tarnopol Rovno
Mozhaisk - SURF to Ivanovo
Kaluga - SUCF to Ryazan
Kalinin - SUA to Moscow
42 1/25/2018 10:16:00 PM Summer 1941 Allied Message Mad at myself for not seeing the Soviet Front (seems to be a key unit) in Lwow in Vassal. Why the heck did Joel design this with the trenches on TOP?

Anyway, is my trench in Bialystok removed when the space flips from attrition?

Will get the move to you tomorrow.
41 1/25/2018 10:01:00 PM Summer 1941 Allied Message Ah, I missed 7.9

While I have never asked to go through my opponent's discard pile (or a mutual discard pile in another CDG), I have no issue with such a request. I have always viewed that we play these games to have fun first...even in a tournament. But I get it.
40 1/25/2018 9:58:00 PM Summer 1941 Axis Message Regarding treatment of discards in BTB - check out 7.9.

With regards to tourney play - it's considered bad form in face-to-face play to try to go through the discard pile for purposes of card-counting. INCLUDING POG. Not sure exactly why, but anything that 'slows the game down' is likely to raise an eyebrow. I remember my early years - we had a guy that used to 'read the card aloud to his opponent' before playing it - we hated him.
39 1/25/2018 9:52:00 PM Summer 1941 Axis Play Strategy card as Operations #9: 4 / Hitler Takes Command
Allow play of Totaler Krieg, Fall Blau, Zitadelle, Wacht am Rhein events. Prevents play of PzG Guderian. +2DRM to the Axis Order rolls.

Message from Axis:
T2AX1
And here we go. Catch up with you in the AM.

Kaunas:
GE9(A) to Pksov
GE16A to V-L via Riga
GE18A to Orsha via Vitebsk

Vienna: GE2(A) to Tarnow, PZc to Lublin

Minsk:
GE2PA to Rzhev via Bobrusik, Gomel, R-Y, Vyazma, Rzhev
GE4PA to Kovel

Kovel:
GE6A autokill SUa T-R,
4PA autokill SUa Pinsk. (4L vs 2c).
4PA advances T-R, Zhitomir, Kiev

** SU units in Smolensk, Lwow and Kolomyja OOS **
** 2PA has clear path to Moscow **
38 1/25/2018 9:42:00 PM Summer 1941 Allied Message So is that a tournament rule? In every CDG I have played the discard pile is open to inspection, and I can't see where the rules say otherwise.

Not arguing, just wondering how it came about.
37 1/25/2018 9:38:00 PM Summer 1941 Axis Message Yes, discards are secret.
36 1/25/2018 9:30:00 PM Summer 1941 Allied Draw Strategy cards Drew 3 to replenish hand to 7 cards.
35 1/25/2018 9:28:00 PM Summer 1941 Allied Message Ugh. I completely missed some Soviet Fronts that were underneath trenches in the Vassal module. Ah well, I'll learn - move stands and we continue, of course.
34 1/25/2018 9:27:00 PM Summer 1941 Allied Message OK I discarded 2 cards - will reveal if you say it's ok.
33 1/25/2018 9:26:00 PM Summer 1941 Allied Discard Strategy card Message from Allied:
32 1/25/2018 9:25:00 PM Summer 1941 Allied Discard Strategy card Message from Allied:
31 1/25/2018 9:24:00 PM Summer 1941 Allied Message Hmmm...are discards supposed to be kept secret? If not, please advise what you discarded. It is no secret that I am card counting in an effort to get to know the deck better.

I also see no function in this module to allow one to get a card out of the discard?
30 1/25/2018 9:21:00 PM Summer 1941 Allied Message Same-colored spaces:

What I meant was, in POG spaces are gray or clear to denote who has control at the start of the game. In this one, all spaces are clear. With the crowded map, it can sometimes be hard to overlook the national boundaries for purposes of control and supply. A minor nuisance, though, at best.
29 1/25/2018 8:18:00 PM Summer 1941 Axis Message None and Stalin Orders.
Standfasts placed on Kishinev, Odessa, Kolomya.

I'll pause here to allow you to discard and draw T2 cards.
28 1/25/2018 8:16:00 PM Summer 1941 Axis Die roll request Request: 6-sided die x 2

4
5


Message from Axis:
Orders for T2 (AX/AL)
27 1/25/2018 8:15:00 PM Summer 1941 Axis Draw Strategy cards Drew 2 to replenish hand to 7 cards.
26 1/25/2018 8:15:00 PM June 1941 Axis End Turn
25 1/25/2018 8:14:00 PM June 1941 Axis Discard Strategy card Message from Axis:
24 1/25/2018 8:13:00 PM June 1941 Axis Message OK, attrition phase is next. WES dies in Bialystok, it goes to the EB and takes an SUa with it from the RB(3,0).

Replacements next - none for either side.

We then do discards, no constraints like POG.
23 1/25/2018 8:00:00 PM June 1941 Axis Message Yes, only Bialystok currently OOS. What do you mean all spaces are the same color? Forest/Swamp/Mountain/Urban should be distinctive...

Misc: My opening was pretty standard with results strongly favoring you... (I "lost" both battles I could lose.)
22 1/25/2018 7:23:00 PM June 1941 Allied Message CORRECTION

SUA stays in Pinsk

Instead...

Vitebsk - SUA to Kalinin
21 1/25/2018 7:19:00 PM June 1941 Allied Play Strategy card as Operations #21: 4 / British Reinforcements
Replace Desert Army (must be on map in full supply) w 8th Army. Remove Desert Army from play. PREREQ: Play any turn following the turn US Build-up is played. Desert Army (5) must be in play

Message from Allied:
OK, here is the move...

Riga - SUA to Leningrad
Pskov - SUA to Leningrad
Gomel - SU Central Front to Kaluga
Pinsk - SUA to Roslav Yenya

No doubt these aren't "great moves" - but this game is all about feeling it out. There will be multiple games of feeling it out.

Over to you to confirm I haven't missed a rule somewhere and then you can walk me through the end of the first turn.
20 1/25/2018 7:09:00 PM June 1941 Allied Message ABout to make my move but wanted to confirm that only Bialystok is OOS for me right now?

This map is WAY busier than POG and somewhat harder to read (all spaces, at least in Vassal, are the same color). It will take some getting used to, despite my knowledge of geography.
19 1/25/2018 6:57:00 PM June 1941 Allied Message Retreat confirmed per your suggestion.
18 1/25/2018 3:52:00 PM June 1941 Allied Message Got it. I will bookmark that page should I have any questions, and see you if I still need an answer.
17 1/25/2018 3:47:00 PM June 1941 Axis Message You're reading too much into it, Fred. The intent of the rule is to make sure you have a reinforcement card on turn 2.

I STRONGLY recommend we just go with what has worked for 100's of competitive plays of BTB on ACTS, see
"http://wargamereplays.com/btb/btbclarifications.html".

Trying to directly apply what's in the rulebook can lead to some ACTS oddities.

16 1/25/2018 3:20:00 PM June 1941 Allied Message Regarding the rule for discarding if I don't have card 2 or 24 in my hand, does this mean I can discard my hand if I have one but not the other? Or, does this mean if I have just one, I cannot discard?

I am known for reading too deep into rules when I learn a new game. Hope that isn't the case here. :-)
15 1/25/2018 10:02:00 AM June 1941 Axis Message Attacks that are entirely across the river connections are subjected to a left column shift.
14 1/25/2018 9:02:00 AM June 1941 Allied Message Question while at work (probably the first of many):

What penalties/benefits do the dotted blue (river) connections give over the standard black connections?
13 1/25/2018 8:04:00 AM June 1941 Axis Message Per 4.4, Soviet Restrictions (starting at bottom of page 3), your SUa in Kaunas needs to end up TWO spaces away from that space. To save some time, I can tell you it should go to Pskov via Riga.

Assuming that's your choice...
GE3PA advances to Dvinsk via Vilna
GE16A and GE18A advance into Kaunas
GE9A flips and advances into Kaunas

From the Courland battle: GE4PA advances to Minsk.

You have OOS threats galore and some OOS units already but as you previously commented, less of a deal in this game. Also - One thing that is generally done in BtB is to warn about threats to Moscow/Stalin.
12 1/24/2018 7:12:00 PM June 1941 Allied Message Learning to play this PBEM is brutal, I usually do a live session first with Vassal/Skype. I can deal, though - just will take a while.

I didn't realize flipped units in this can advance. Nasty...
11 1/24/2018 7:11:00 PM June 1941 Allied Message 6/3 result

Eliminate SU NW Front and replace with SUA (4,0)

SUA retreats to Riga via Dvinsk

You have loss choice and advance option, also an advance option for Courland
10 1/24/2018 7:07:00 PM June 1941 Allied Die roll request Request: 6-sided die x 2

3
4


Message from Allied:
Kaunas:

Axis on 15L (+1)
Allies on 3L
9 1/24/2018 7:03:00 PM June 1941 Allied Message Flip GEc in Warsaw
8 1/24/2018 7:02:00 PM June 1941 Allied Die roll request Request: 6-sided die x 1

5


Message from Allied:
Brest-Litovsk

Firing back on 2S
7 1/24/2018 8:21:00 AM June 1941 Allied Message Alrighty...give me a bit to digest all this and I will be back with my first play this evening.
6 1/24/2018 8:19:00 AM June 1941 Axis Play Strategy card as Event #1: 5 / Barbarossa
Axis places 5 Combat markers in any axis ocupied spaces (include. Multi-nationality spaces). +1 DRM for all Ge attack vs. Su this round. Cancels Su Trench No Retreat option & Def 1R effect for entire turn. PREREQ: Play on Turn 1 only. May not play if Von Paulus Pause has been played.

Message from Axis:
No worries, Fred, 99% of the tournament stuff is just clarifications.

GE7(A) to Calais, GE1(A) to Reims

Stalin Orders on Kolomyja, Kishinev, Lwow

Place Stand-fast Markers on Lwow, Kolomyja, and Kishinev.

Combats:
Yassi: GE11(A) autokills SUa Chernovitsi, advance. (3L+1 vs 2s)

Lublin: GE6A autokills SUa Kovel and advances in.

Warsaw: All attack B-L. (You get 2s return fire.)
GE4A, GEc advance into B-L
GE2PA advances to Minsk via Baranovich

Memel/Insterberg:
All excl GE4PA vs Kaunas, 15L+1 vs 3L
(Advances TBD)

GE4PA autokills SUa Courland
(Advance TBD)
5 1/23/2018 6:43:00 PM June 1941 Allied Message Also, if it's all the same, I'd rather just use the living rules for our first game...rather than add the tournament rules on top.

4 1/23/2018 6:35:00 PM June 1941 Allied Draw Strategy cards Drew 7 to replenish hand to 7 cards.
3 1/23/2018 6:35:00 PM June 1941 Allied Message No rush, Tom - this is going to be a leisurely pace for me in the beginning anyway. I think this is the first game I have played online BEFORE playing either solo or face to face!

I suppose I start by drawing 7 cards, as there is no Orders roll on the first turn, so I will do that now.
2 1/23/2018 5:34:00 PM June 1941 Axis Message Game set up, will probably be tomorrow before I can get opening to you.
1 1/23/2018 5:33:00 PM June 1941 Axis Draw Strategy cards Drew 7 to replenish hand to 7 cards.

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