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Entry # Time Turn Player Title Entry
129 2/27/2020 8:51:00 PM Turn 7 Blue Message Thanks for the great game everyone, I thoroughly enjoyed the experience... so at odds with my previous two plays where I got totally smashed!

Brent, did you post your idea of having the military emperor only die on a roll of 6 if their army is victorious?

I think it's a great little tweak, so much so I'm proposing we use it as a house rule for the game of TOC I'm starting with my ol inner west game group. If you don't feel like submitting this to BGG, I'd certainly like to do so. I like the extra flavour the emperor rules bring to the game tho I totally agree with your assessment that as is, the military emperor option is so fragile as to seldom see it's employment. Tweaked tho as you propose, I think it could be a far more enticing option without breaking the game.
128 2/25/2020 12:51:00 AM Turn 7 Green Message I am happy to stop it there, seeing we have a result. I think your Emperor Turns would have had you come in second, Richard.

If Neil is going to play, and has no previous COIN experience, I'm thinking Pendragon might not be the place to start. I have Gandhi still in shrink, both on my bookshelf and electronically (i.e.I haven't played it yet) and maybe it's a batter place to start. I'll have a think about it and get back to you.

I'm not sure that you were too enthusiastic about your COIN experience, Bart (or maybe it was just being Caesar's punching bag). There's a big pool of COIN players here so don't feel obliged if you're not up for it at the moment. We'll have no problem filling out a game.
127 2/25/2020 12:08:00 AM Turn 7 Red Message Well played Neil.
7 turns feels like a pretty short game.
I'm happy to try Pendragon again, although after 18 months as the Saxons (full campaign went to the last Epoch card) I'd like to be one of the Britons.


126 2/24/2020 1:08:00 AM Turn 7 Blue Message I'm not familiar with the COIN games Brent, but I'm always happy to give anything a go. All my PBEM Vassal games to date have been head to head wargames, this game of TOC aside. I've really enjoyed this experience of TOC and have proposed a game of it to my old inner west gaming group. And I'll happily stick my hand up for Pendragon or anything else you're looking to fill a seat for, I've not gamed much for the past few years and when I have, the focus has been narrow. (WWII Strategic East Front). I need to get out more...
125 2/24/2020 12:24:00 AM Turn 7 Green Message Just looking ahead now this is nearly wrapped up....

I'm looking at firing up a Pendragon game in the next couple of weeks. I've played it only once and it ended early at the second Epoch (I jagged a win with the Civitates without quite knowing how I did it!). Keen to explore it more deeply. I've just started a first game of Fire in the Lake with my usual COIN PBEM crew and they're getting to grips with it so I'll cast around for other players. I know you've played the long campaign, Richard, and you've had COIN experience with Falling Sky, Bart. I don't know if you play COIN, Neil. Pendragon is probably the most complex of all of them for starting with but not insurmountable. Not quite as quick and clean as Time of Crisis but still pretty well suited to PBEM. Have a think about it.....it will be a couple of weeks away.
124 2/23/2020 11:01:00 PM Turn 7 Green Message Well done, Neil. the, end game is triggered and we can't catch you. However, Bart and I can do our turns to see who gets bragging rights for coming in second, third, etc.

It makes no difference now, Neil, but I'll point out that your weren't emperor when that event hit (it was a neutral emperor) so it didn't do anything....you could have kept your card.
123 2/23/2020 10:23:00 AM Turn 7 Blue Message It's interesting they started out having the military emperors die on a roll of 6, before discovering this made them too powerful. Adjusting this to a 5 or 6 probably goes too far in the other direction (unless you're me apparently...) doubling the odds from 16% chance of death per hit inflicted, to 33%. Maybe somewhere in between is where it should be, perhaps as per your suggestion Brent? You win, he only dies on a six. But you loose the battle and it's a 5 or 6. Thematically makes sense.

As you're more likely as the mil emperor to be attacking from a position of strength in your own turn, you'll be more likely to win... and thereby more likely to survive (if only a 6 kills). So you'd also be more likely to retain the purple on your own turn, advancing the emperor marker along the turn track rather than suddenly losing this bonus thru an untimely demise.

Conversely, as the other players gang up and hit you with card affected attacks in their own turns, you're more likely to start losing battles with the subsequent risk of dying rising to 5 or 6.

I need to play TOC more to have a stronger opinion on this, but I agree with you Brent that as is, the mil emperor option is going to be fairly under utilised. But that one little tweak sounds to me like a really good one, in fact I suggest you add it to the thread you linked us too. The designer did actually state they'd like such input as I think they probably know they've not quite got this right. Tho your tweak might fix this?
122 2/23/2020 9:42:00 AM Turn 7 Blue Message Blues turn done, over to Bart.
121 2/23/2020 1:07:00 AM Turn 7 Green Message I did a quick search on BGG and found a discussion thread about the military emperor, covering all our same concerns.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2225781/military-emperor-vulnerability

The designer suggests that playtesters were pulling single turn military Legacy hauls in the 20's. I have to say I find this extremely unlikely. Even if he has a number of Forced Marches and a convenient domino line of 3 unit barbarian armies queued up, he's likely to die before he gets to the end of it, even on his winning battles. The no additional Legacy for just being Emperor, his vulnerability, the extremely situational and janky end game scenario proposed and the fact that he doesn't even get an emperor's turn marker advance if he dies during his actions phase, makes it likely that a Military emperor will almost never see play.....and that's disappointing because it should be an option as viable as the other two at any time in the game. The resistance to Praetorian Guard is good but not enough, because if you send him into battle (which is the whole point of taking him), he's likely to be dead and leave the throne empty anyway. Another point of vulnerability we've just seen is that weak players (i.e. the rest of us poor shmucks) can go for a cheap dethroning shot by sending suicide forces against him, hoping to pick him off in a losing battle. I'm not convinced that this was as well thought out or playtested as it might have been. I've tried him twice and lost him immediately both times, probably costing me one game.

A thematically appropriate option might be to have the military emperor die on a 6 in battles that he wins, and on a 5 to 6 in battles that he loses. I'd also suggest that you'd absolutely want to send him into the attack with a Spiculum or two in hand, to take out enemies before they have a chance to ping him in the main battle. Still pretty unlikely to be able to set that all up with any reliability often enough for it to be a meaningful element of the game.

The real meat of the expansion is the extra cards which are well worth the price of admission. The addition of the emperor options is a neat idea but not so attractive that it needs to be included. I think in most cases the original Senate emperor will be the default option. The Populace emperor is quite a nice option if the circumstances are right....a potential massive Legacy haul in a well defended 4 Support province but with a well balanced vulnerability. The Military emperor doesn't work IMHO. I'd always play with the additional cards now....the emperor options I could take or leave.

I didn't realise but there's a short errata file for the expansion. There is a change to the military emperor legacy gain, which doesn't apply to what we've been discussing but fixes an edge case when there are Pretenders in play. The rest of the errata in the document are for the solo bot.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-nScEmnaRL5Mb9kTIGDgIYn0e6t4wcf8stg8dJkLNCQ/edit

....and I realised I made a non-game changing mistake in my log. I suggested I had a 2 vote discount on my long shot governor placement in Italy because I was trying to oust a Military emperor. I was going off memory and no sleep (just home from night shift). That rule applies to the Populace emperor. The Military emperor has enough disadvantages already without that.
120 2/22/2020 10:45:00 PM Turn 7 Blue Message Well, in fairness to me, it's not actually been me rolling those dice! An thank goodness too, the guilt would be overwhelming by now otherwise!!

It's interesting reading the handful of comments on BGG calling TOC unbalanced, easpecially for the first player/s to take the purple. But the counter views by more experienced players are that such imbalances are simply dealt with by ganging up on the leader, as has happened in this game. Everyone's done the right thing, it should've pulverised me as it did on my two previous plays of TOC. But you roll enough 6's (or have your opponents roll them for you...) and it can make pegging back anyone tough, even when working together.
119 2/22/2020 10:23:00 PM Turn 7 Red Message Neil's outstanding dice rolling continues, but the Military emperor finally bit the dust. Another Blue puppet will probably go onto the throne though.
Over to Neil
118 2/22/2020 10:22:00 PM Turn 6 Red End Turn
117 2/22/2020 10:21:00 PM Turn 6 Red Edit Emperor Turns Red: from 1 to 2
Blue: from 1 to 3
Yellow: from 0 to 0
Green: from 0 to 0
116 2/22/2020 9:15:00 PM Turn 6 Blue Message The dice are crazy and I humbly apologise for all the luck going my way! It must be lady luck squaring up for my two previous games where I proved quite incapable of winning battles!

No worries with docking the 3 legacy mate, yet another reason not to take the Military emperor option. Mine should be well dead by now, once more luck has been on my side sparing him. I think a military emperor might be best served going after Barabarians in their homeland for a late game legacy surge. They really shouldn't survive long, not as long as mine has at any rate!

Also, didn't you inflict a hit on one of the legions in Rome? I think you did, so Richard you might want to adjust this before finishing this guy off!

Lastly, I've read the Military emperor rules several times now and am struggling to find the bit about their not receiving legacy for Italia?!? I'm sure it's just one of those situations where it's staring me in the face... I'd have thought they might list this under the Special Disadvantages: bullet points, but in my rules there's nada!
115 2/22/2020 4:40:00 PM Turn 6 Green Message 28 logged and over to Red, Richard.

I docked you 3 Legacy you took for being emperor, Neil. You don't get Italian support as Legacy for a Military emperor.....doesn't matter because I returned it to you with interest. The dice are crazy.
114 2/22/2020 1:22:00 PM Turn 6 Blue Message Noble effort Bart, deserved better. The battles feel pretty dicey in TOC and lady lucks been kind to me this game.

Brent I'm happy to keep things as they are with one legion destroyed leaving two at full strength in Rome. Bad Augeries making flipped legions only hit on 6's makes them next to useless.

We've hardly rolled any 7's on the crisis rolls, no wonder the board has been festooned with barbarians! I'd really like to see Bad Augeries gone, but then again maybe if they keep the hits down all round it's better for my military emperor? That may well be the case but I'd still like to see another 7 on the crisis rolls so we can move on from Bad Augeries.
113 2/22/2020 6:30:00 AM Turn 6 Yellow Message Sorry for the delay guys, this week was impossible. And next week I'm away for school holidays, back next Sunday.

I've fixed things from previous players and taken my turn. Neil, you have a choice to reduce 2 legions from battle instead of eliminating one (which I did).
112 2/19/2020 11:43:00 PM Turn 6 Blue Message Bart, in taking a gander at my last turn I notice I gipped myself a point of legacy when counting thru 40 points and going back to the beginning of the score track. I shouldn't have counted the "zero" space where our emperor track counters live, but I inadvertently did. Would you please move my counter from where it currently is on 41 to 42? Cheers mate...
111 2/17/2020 3:21:00 PM Turn 6 Green Message Yes, Foederated barbarians are treated as Roman in almost all respects. They donít grant an additional Legacy bonus when destroyed.
110 2/17/2020 2:46:00 AM Turn 6 Blue Message Good catch Brent, my bad. I'd actually thought I'd read somewhere the designers had answered this question but with the opposite conclusion! But in hindsight I think that discussion concerned fighting barbarians in their homeland provinces, ie when they're clearly not Foederated! Also I read somewhere that when Foederated barbarians die, the player killing them doesn't get the normal legacy for killing barbarians, hence my not giving any to Richard for doing this this turn.
109 2/17/2020 12:35:00 AM Turn 6 Green Message Neil,

Just a minor point on your turn. Foederated barbarians are considered Roman, so are affected by Bad Auguries.

Reference from Wray Ferrell here:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1932519/article/28358244#28358244

This means that one of Red's depleted legions survives with a general retreated out into the Italian countryside. You still win the battle because the Spiculum hits count as part of your total dice result for the battle. Reference here:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2207054/article/32041161#32041161

I did have a good week of gaming but I actually get in very little live gaming, mostly due to my work schedule. This was 6 months of gaming in one week....you take the opportunity when you get it.


108 2/16/2020 2:39:00 AM Turn 6 Blue Message Brent I envy the amount of gaming you're able to get in! Even when I lived in Sydney surrounded by fellow gamers I didn't get as many games in as you seem to!

Interesting sounding game. Another of it's nuances I suppose... that it can play really quickly or else last quite a bit longer, all dependent on the vagaries of the individual game and players involved.

Anyway, part two of my turn is in the bin labelled TOC_26b_Blue.

Over to Bart...

107 2/16/2020 12:28:00 AM Turn 6 Red Message Hi Neil,
I was hoping that your hand hadn't cycled for Spiculum.
I'll spread the pain as I need to roll lots of 6s here anyway.

I haven't done a new log file.


106 2/15/2020 11:28:00 PM Turn 6 Green Message Welcome back, Richard.

I played Time of Crisis again this week on Wednesday, this time at the table with Michael, Shaun and Damian. Michael won but it was an interesting game and I drew it out by doing something I havenít come across in any other game, but itís an interesting option. Michael was about 15 Legacy ahead with me as last player and about to cross 60 as Emperor myself, and so hand him the game. Instead, I used the Recall Governor ability to remove my emperor and so the end game condition wasnít triggered. Between us all we made sure Michael couldnít retake the throne, and I couldnít retake it myself with Michael in the lead as that would simply trigger the end game again. This drew the game on long enough that deck thinning became the main expenditure for Political Points and everyone had trashed almost all their 1 pointers, making the hands lean and high valueÖ..there were some frightening 4 legion armies in the field. This couldnít go on forever, because you canít leave the throne open for the front runner to take it and trigger the end game and if somebodyís holding the throne they will eventually and unavoidably cross 60 and trigger the end game, which Shaun eventually did. Michael won with over 90 Legacy but Iíd reeled him in to a 5 point gap. Not a common scenario but certainly recalling your own emperor is something to consider to prevent somebody elseí victory lap if the conditions are right for you to catch them (15 legacy was too much).

Brent.
105 2/15/2020 10:11:00 PM Turn 6 Blue Message Gents the first part of TOC_26_Blue is in dropbox but it's only a portion of my turn as Richard has a decision to make on how to apply a couple of casualty hits due to Spiculum. Normally with combat being simultaneous this wouldn't be an issue... but it is sequentially as I've explained in the LF.

Also, I've activated the Alamanni in Thrace which didn't return to active service at the end of Barts turn like I think it was supposed to. Feel free to correct me if I've got this wrong and my apologies if that's the case.

Over to you Richard for your casualty call.
104 2/15/2020 3:43:00 AM Turn 6 Red Message Hi All,
We finally got our power back at 6pm tonight (over 6 days without power). It was OK camping at home for a while, but it started to get a bit old towards the end.
I've done my turn, which I hope I've done right. There's a new emperor! Hope the reign is a bit longer this time.
Richard
103 2/15/2020 3:41:00 AM Turn 5 Red End Turn
102 2/12/2020 4:50:00 PM Turn 5 Green Edit Legacy Red: from 22 to 26
Blue: from 21 to 33
Yellow: from 22 to 27
Green: from 21 to 26
101 2/12/2020 4:45:00 PM Turn 5 Green Message Sorry for the delay. Read your note about Sunday night, didn't catch that you'd also done your turn, Bart.

24 logged and over to Red when you're powered up again, Richard.

Played Time of Crisis at the table yesterday in a marathon 12 hour day of gaming with mates in Wollongong (also Scythe and Battlestar Galactica....not my preferences but both were heaps of fun). We pulled out ToC at 5.30 when we dropped from 5 to 4 players. Looked like Michael was going to win in a couple of hours but it extended out to 10 pm in a very different game. My fault...when it looked like I as going to cross 60 as emperor and hand Michael the win (he was at least 20 Legacy ahead of us), I did something I'd never done before and spent 2 Senate points to recall my governor out of Italia and avoid the game end trigger. Michael couldn't retake the throne and the game extended out until Shaun crossed 60 as Emperor (unavoidable that it must eventually happen) but it wasn't until Michael was at 90 Legacy! He did win but I'd reeled in the gap to 5 points (Military emperor and Triumph)....almost got him :). Interestingly in such an extended game deck thinning became the default strategy and most of us had lean hands with no 1 pointers left in them. So even more variability in this game than I'd appreciated.
100 2/12/2020 3:19:00 PM Turn 5 Yellow Message Brent, I did my turn on the 6th and the log appears to be in the folder. Let me know if you can't see it there.

Good to hear about the live game, worrying that Murray won again!
99 2/11/2020 8:44:00 PM Turn 5 Blue Message Yes thanks Richard, we've had rain. About 150mls in total and it's fallen liberally throughout the firegrounds on the south coast. The closest burnt bush is only a few hundred meters from our property and we've wandered up there a few times since it went up about a week ago. The first couple of days it was still actively burning in a couple of spots, which we were able to extinguish by hand and boot. Bigger logs, stumps and fallen trees continued to glow red for a few days, but as of yesterday absolutely everything was out! Anecdotally this tells me the same must be true in all the back country around here. Officially the fires are still listed as active, but I think it's only a matter of time before this changes.

98 2/11/2020 4:49:00 PM Turn 5 Red Message Hi all,
Neil, I hope that the rain got to you in the end. We got too much! We haven't had power since Sunday afternoon. So no Vassal for me at the moment.
Brent, did you get your game in on Sunday night?
RIchard
97 2/6/2020 8:35:00 PM Turn 5 Blue Message Something slightly weird going on with ACTs now, Brent's last couple of messages have come through as emails but don't now appear in the ACTs message log. Not a drams as I can still read them as emails.

So I'm good to go for Sunday Brent, if you still someone. I reckon streaming just voice will work.

No ran for us yet tho we hear it's tipping down elsewhere. Very unlikely we'll miss out altogether, there's simply too much predicted. That's the hope at least.
96 2/6/2020 5:41:00 PM Turn 5 Yellow Message Turn taken, hands thrown in the air.

Sunday's difficult so I'll queue up behind you Neil.
95 2/6/2020 8:15:00 AM Turn 5 Blue Message I've not played Vassal live but I'm sure that's no biggie. If we were only using the chat function of Discord I might be able to do that, tho I've not used this app before. It'd probably be easier for Bart or Richard to step in but if either of them can't I'm willing to give it a whirl.
94 2/6/2020 7:28:00 AM Turn 5 Blue Message Bart or Richard, are you interested?

Would this still be play by email Brent, ie not using Skype or something similar? My internet connection here's pretty crap so live streaming is out.

93 2/6/2020 2:27:00 AM Turn 5 Green Message Gents, I was going to kick off the first live session of a Vassal game of Fire in the Lake on Sunday night but weíre one short as a mateís return flight has been delayed. So Iíve suggested Time of Crisis as an alternative we could knock off in 1-2 hours (Shaun and Murray are pretty experienced ToC players so it will run through pretty quickly). We need a fourth and was wondering whether any of you would be interested? 8 pm Sunday (10 am your time, Bart).
92 2/5/2020 2:59:00 PM Turn 5 Green Message Good work, Neil.

Yes, the black die on the invasion roll doesn't just determine whether barbarians will invade but how many.
91 2/5/2020 12:06:00 PM Turn 5 Blue Message That's Blue done. I think I got a bit lucky with the timing of becoming emperor with everyone busy with barbarians at the door. But I suppose that's in keeping with the period.
90 2/5/2020 6:31:00 AM Turn 5 Red Message Only had the dregs of my deck this turn, so couldn't do anything about Neil this turn.
Over to Neil and his Blues
89 2/5/2020 6:30:00 AM Turn 4 Red End Turn
88 2/4/2020 4:10:00 AM Turn 4 Green Edit Legacy Red: from 12 to 22
Blue: from 13 to 21
Yellow: from 13 to 22
Green: from 16 to 21
87 2/4/2020 4:09:00 AM Turn 4 Green Message 20_Green uploaded and over to Red.

Didn't make as much headway against the emperor as I thought. May be too late! We'll see.

86 2/3/2020 11:49:00 PM Turn 4 Blue Message Yesterday proved to be safer for us than many others locally. I've heard of "dozens" more properties lost nearby, mostly in and around Wyndham. Just now on the squawk box I'm hearing firey's announce their abandoning the fight for some poor souls property. And they've also just announced another four properties on my road (Myrtle Mountain road) being hit that are "undefendable".

Yesterday as the fire front a few kms to our west begun brewing up, a big tanker with six crew pulled up. Never a good sign... They assessed our property, noted where we'd fitted our stort connector (for them to rapidly refill their tanks from our water storage) and listened as I rattled off the steps we'd taken to ready our property. This was somewhat disconcerting as the crew chief was taking notes with a very serious expression on her face. My partner Linda even asked them if they "thought we were mad?" I thought they were going to tell us "you have to go" but instead they said how "nice it was seeing people properly prepared"! That made us feel a lot better. That and the fact they were probably scoping our place for how best to defend it if they had to return.

Last night we had a splendid view of what looked like a newly formed volcanoe to the west. The hill there is higher than our property and is somewhat volcanoe like in shape. Add to that the rivulets of red trailing down it's sides and the effect was complete. Today I can't see any fire on it, just smoke. At it's base (hidden from our view by the intervening ridge) is where the fire ran yesterday, in a line that parallels our property, about 8kms distant. That didn't directly threaten us but its presence is a dagger in our side, should a big westerly subsequently turn it this way. The concern today is due south higher up on Myrtle Mountain where I'm literally listening to reports of property loss coming in as I write this.

This is also the direction of where the fire came to within a few hundred meters of us on Sunday. While that particular fire didn't trouble us yesterday with the strong southerly blowing, uppermost in our thoughts were the recollections of burning fallen trees, stumps and logs we'd seen there the evening before. It seemed it'd be fairly miraculous if one of these didn't kick things off again, but this didn't happen. I'm thinking fire crews had probably been back there yesterday morning and put more water on the fire ground.

So that's our latest, still hanging in there... house still intact. Big rain is so close now adding an extra level of pain to those losing their homes today. That's where all our focus is presently, it's too much to contemplate the consequences otherwise.

Prior to finishing writing that last sentence I got a call from a neighbour who's also a firey (with valuable inside intel) informing me of a new fire 1.5 kms up on and both sides of the road. This was meant to be a quiet day.
85 2/3/2020 10:56:00 PM Turn 4 Blue Message Bart I think that was just the sort of move required. While I don't want to encourage digressions against this glorious and benevolent reign, were I to do so, this is just the kind of action I'd prescribe!

It's hard being sure of what cards to choose for a turn that's actually 4 turns away. I see more merit in the Frumnetari card now. I'm already thinking I've probably not chosen optimally for my next turn, but then of course it all depends on what Brent and Richard do! No matter what, I was at least able to take the purple for a turn, something I spectacularly failed to achieve in my first game. Holding it tho won't be easy tho I'm thinking...

84 2/3/2020 4:48:00 PM Turn 4 Yellow Message I've taken my turn. Couldn't do much against this new and brutal emperor but I did what I could (kicking his shins). Do your best Brent and Richard!

Hoping for the best with your real crisis Neil.
83 2/2/2020 7:01:00 PM Turn 4 Blue Message We've had a drizzling 3 mls overnight which should at least impede the fires today. It's all about the wind and speed of arrival later today... if the front pushes that final km or two to us. We're hoping it'll be a calmer/tamer proposition if it does... we're ready for that. And real rains forecast at the end of the week.

We've no intention of dying protecting our house, but it's a solid rammed earth/mud brick structure with 30mm fire resistant timber cladding and industrial strengh double glazed windows. We've also a fire pump, two hoses and about 50,000 liters of water to throw at it. Simply put, there are few houses more ready than ours, tho I hasten to add we're still very aware of all the risks.
82 2/2/2020 6:55:00 PM Turn 4 Blue Message Good catch Brent, the nomads went a roaming without permission. I'm sure Bart won't mind rolling the invasion roll for me at the outset of his turn... as you point out, only a 1 in 6 chance they'll invade and join their comrades.

And I fully expect to be the target now I'm emperor. From what I've read, this is key to this game. It's not just the +10 legacy at games end for being the emperor the most but rather as you rightly point out, all the extra legacy grabs each turn and extra card drafting capability any emperor with a few provinces gets. I'm happy for you to guide this rebellion Brent, feel free to offer any advice you think Bart or Richard might benefit from in your newly formed alliance!
81 2/2/2020 6:03:00 PM Turn 4 Red Message Neil,
Well played. I though my reign would be short, but not that short :)
Good luck with the fires. Hope you get some of our rain soon.
80 2/2/2020 2:55:00 PM Turn 4 Green Message That sounds horrific, Neil. Good luck today. Hope you have an exit route and plan in place? Home is important but not as important as your safety (says I from my safe suburban house).

All good with your turn except the the Nomads invaded Africa without an invasion roll. I'm sure Bart would be very happy to return them to the Sahara in his turn and do the roll (only 1 in 6 chance). As you've just discovered, being Emperor for even one turn gives you a massive tempo boost, not just from the Legacy gained but from a deck construction point of view.

I've read people complaining that once one player gets that boost, it's impossible for the others to catch him. I've seen it in a couple of games but that only happens if the other players sit on their hands and don't or can't be agressive quickly enough to deal with it. Lets' see how we go.
79 2/2/2020 2:43:00 PM Turn 4 Green Edit Emperor / Pretender Red: from EMPEROR to
Blue: from to EMPEROR (Senatus)
Yellow: from to
Green: from to
78 2/2/2020 2:42:00 PM Turn 4 Green Edit Emperor Turns Red: from 1 to 1
Blue: from 0 to 1
Yellow: from 0 to 0
Green: from 0 to 0
77 2/2/2020 12:15:00 PM Turn 4 Blue Message Brutal day for us yesterday with the heat and winds merging three local fires into a pyrocumulonimbus beast that came roaring our way making about 20kms progress in five or six hours. While it was still on approach, I got a great view of it's towering height with a weird orange glow within it. Very similar in appearance to the event that flipped the fire truck and killed a firey in Jingellic a few weeks back. And tho I'd heard the emergency workers calling it a pyrocumulonimbus event (on their comms channel which I monitor closely on such days) I was still surprised by the noise coming from it. What sounded like trees falling or dropping bough's was in fact the sound of the inherit thunder these things generate. It's a very strange heavy dull sound, more like cannon fire than typical thunder. It doesn't rumble and echo at all. This might have something to do with the cloud itself, heavy with ash muffling it? It was a very impressive sight but not one that filled me with too much dread as it seemed too far away to threaten us.

But the fire front did make it virtually to our place. A couple of nasty spot fires broke out in advance of it and I had several neighbours quickly on the phone warning me they could see flames approaching our place. Even though our house was the closest to the fire, the vagaries of the terrain meant I couldn't see the flames they were reporting for some time. By the time I could see them it was obvious they were only a few hundred meters away! This was probably the fifth time this summer I was certain we were about to be hit, tho the reality of seeing the actual flames took this one to a whole new level. But once again, the fire didn't come, purely from the efforts of the volunteer firey's who once more saved the day.

In much milder conditions today we took a stroll up through the burnt bush, the fire having been mostly extinguished. Lots of smouldering logs, some still with small licks of flame coming from them. We doused as many of these as we could by hand and boot. But what really amazed us was the indications of how much effort that had gone into fighting this particular spot fire. The old road running through our property was originally constructed by convicts and as it had to facilitate horse or bullocks towing carts, it's gradient up Myrtle Mountain is always very gradual. It makes for a great dog walking track especially with all the trees and foliage that had overgrown it in the years since it was decommissioned (in favour of a steeper more direct road once folk started driving cars). But what we saw wandering up there was nothing short of amazing. A big dozer, or heavy plant as they call them had been in there, dozing both new trails and clearing this old road... even going so far as repairing sections of it that were heavily eroded and crumbling away. Even more amazing were some of the newly cleared paths thru the bush that went down ridiculously steep inclines, presumably facilitating the entry of the firey's trucks down into the gully where the fire was most inaccessible. A lot of people and resources were clearly thrown into the effort of saving the dozen or so houses most effected by this flare up... quite humbling.

The main fire front stopped pretty much of it's own accord once the wind died down and the day cooled. But even in the early hours of the morning those weird dull thuds kept reminding me this thing hadn't completely cooled it's jets. A bit of that happened today with some gentle drizzle. Not enough to put the main fires out, but enough to give us a nice break and hopefully ensure when things crank up again today, it's doing so from a less angry base.

Which is good as the closest part of the front is now less than a km away to the south and only a bit further than this to the west and north. Once again we're expecting to have to defend our property today, if it starts running at all with the strong southerlies predicted there's simply no more room left before it hit
76 2/2/2020 11:38:00 AM Turn 4 Blue Message I'll play safe and just be a senate emperor. Maybe you could make the adjustment for me Bart in your turn?
75 2/2/2020 11:25:00 AM Turn 4 Blue Message I've done my turn and popped it in the drop box. But I forgot to select what kind of emperor I am... I'll just take a quick gander at the pertinent rules and I'll be back with an announcement.
74 2/2/2020 3:26:00 AM Turn 4 Green Message Well done, Richard.

Yes, using the expansion Emperor rules. There are actually grey emperor markers above your player board.....the round one is to place on your Senate emperor in Italia or your Populace emperor (wherever he may be), the square one is to place on your Military emperor. Fine because we know you're a Senate emperor....identical to the core game emperor except that he's also immune to Damnatio Memoriae.
73 2/2/2020 3:20:00 AM Turn 4 Green Edit Emperor Turns Red: from 0 to 1
Blue: from 0 to 0
Yellow: from 0 to 0
Green: from 0 to 0
72 2/2/2020 3:20:00 AM Turn 4 Green Edit Emperor / Pretender Red: from to EMPEROR
Blue: from to
Yellow: from to
Green: from to
71 2/1/2020 8:18:00 PM Turn 4 Red Message Hi All,
We have a new (very fine) emperor. He hopes that his reign will be long and glorious, but will probably be short.
If we are playing the different types of emperor, he's a Senate emperor.
I forgot to press the end turn button, and apolgo=ies for some pieces getting mixed up while movng them.
Hope the fires are staying away.

70 2/1/2020 8:15:00 PM Turn 3 Red End Turn
69 2/1/2020 8:00:00 AM Turn 3 Blue Message I've tried everything to get the 4 AP cards back. If I scroll completely to the right, they're still excised even if I've completely zoomed out. I can also minimise the window, shuffle it to the left of screen so there's loads of room to expand it to the right... same problem. It will only open the window as far as the second row of 3 AP cards. And as stated previously, I've uninstalled and reinstalled both Vassal and the TOC module! A google search hasn't revealed anyone else with this problem so I'm happy to live with it especially now that Bart's pointed out we can still access the 4AP cards from our hand window. The only issue is with spending political points to bury cards, which we can simply ask one of you guys to do for us. I'm fine with that... all Vassal modules have their quirks.

Hope you're right about the rain Brent. Just heard on the squawk box the firey's have found another fire on Myrtle Mountain... which would be us. Time to run through all the APPs once more. Sounds like it's in a steep gully and they won't be able to contain it tonight. That's a common story, one that only decent rain can rectify.
68 2/1/2020 7:48:00 AM Turn 3 Blue Message Nicely executed turn Brent. The tribute card seems like a powerful early card to draft especially if you're beset by barbarians. Great example of how to play it!

Rome does indeed look vulnerable now you've taken Britania. Us newbs were all a bit too deficient on senate cards this turn to do anything about it, I'm sure that's set to change.

Bad fires all around here today. Looks like a work mate has lost his house. A nasty fires certainly gone through his area. A spot fire broke out on a neighbours fire which the fireys contained quickly. And a couple of hours ago I went from watching a glow over the ridge behind us to seeing actual flames! But once again, those gods in yellow seem to have saved the day. But no sleep for me, just in case...
67 2/1/2020 7:25:00 AM Turn 3 Green Message Great game of Falling Sky at Bears today (I know you've both played with me, Bart and Richard). Four turn scenario that went all the way to the final Winter (good going to finish it in one Saturday session). The Arverni won by one VP from the Belgae.....first Arverni victory I've seen in a dozen games and a very tight finish. Good stuff.
66 2/1/2020 7:20:00 AM Turn 3 Green Edit Legacy Red: from 8 to 12
Blue: from 9 to 13
Yellow: from 9 to 13
Green: from 7 to 16
65 2/1/2020 7:19:00 AM Turn 3 Green Message Hang in there, Neil. Rain coming I believe.

16_Green logged and I had a good (lucky) turn. Over to Red, Richard.

Sassanids dealt with for a big Legacy haul, and I've set myself up in Britannia (somebody had to). That's one weak emperor waiting to be dethroned.

For seeing the 4 Legacy cards....I can't help but think you're too far zoomed in, as to cater for the expansion the deck windows extend off the side of the old map. Trying zooming out ("-" magnifying glass to the right of the toolbar, then dragging to expand your window and you should be able to see them. If that doesn't work, then let me know and I can card cycle for you (doesn't help if you're fishing for a good one yourself)
64 1/31/2020 6:41:00 PM Turn 3 Blue Message Lots of blackened leaves falling around the property but none of em alight... for the moment. Everything depends on the wind, due to start picking up any minute now.

Bart, that's the same problem I've been having with the right edge of the board cut off and the 4AP cards hidden. Great trick tho being able to see them in the "hand" window. I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling both Vassal and the TOC module itself, neither of which fixed it. If someone was able to move the piles of cards across to the left, all three levels of AP cards would fit and be visible, but the only way to do this would be to move every card individually... giving away the card order in each deck. As the main issue is not being able to send cards to the bottom, we could simply just make a note of this in our LF's and have either Brent or Richard implement the action for us. Bit annoying tho.
63 1/31/2020 5:36:00 PM Turn 3 Yellow Message I've posted my turn, and suppose stuff will start happening soon. Still in the buildup.

Good luck with the fires ...
62 1/30/2020 8:44:00 PM Turn 3 Blue Message Thanks for the tip. I'm pretty sure I was able to trash a single AP Senate card, I'll double check when next I look at the file. Your way does sound easier tho.

Not much happening with the fires right at the moment, save lots of smoke, something we've become very accustomed to this summer. Conditions are predicted to kick off later today before really ramping up tomorrow. Given my input into the game is only an hour or two every two or three days, it's really a welcome distraction rather than a burden keeping me from more pressing issues. Late Sunday or early Monday things are looking like settling down once more and with that the chance of rain... the only thing that will put an end to all this.
61 1/30/2020 5:12:00 AM Turn 3 Green Message Jupiter, Neil. What are you doing posting game turns?
Sounds like you have a bigger crisis to deal with.
I'm sacrificing a Corona and a G&T for your safe deliverance.

For when you are safe and sound.....when you need to trash a card just go to your hand window and choose the Discards button with the red X. It willlist all your cards in your discard pile and you can right click the ones you want to trash.
60 1/30/2020 12:15:00 AM Turn 3 Blue Message Also, I've done my turn so it's over to you Bart...
59 1/30/2020 12:14:00 AM Turn 3 Blue Message Grim day here today. SES, RFS and cops buzzing around everywhere warning folk to be gone by tomorrow morning. Two nearby fires in rugged country nearby are expected to play up tomorrow/Saturday and the firies are telling everyone they're not sticking round to fight it if it comes this way as it's predicted to do. We've cleared loads around our bush block and have built a strong fire resistant house. So for now we're staying put. This won't be the first time we've been more or less alone on the mountain this summer. Really hoping tho it's not as bad as feared.
58 1/29/2020 2:07:00 PM Turn 3 Green Message Thanks Richard.

Looks like you got out of Canberra just in time.

All good with your turn except for the neutral Emperor's support. It's always equal to the number of neutral provinces, including Italia. It should be at 2 currently (Italia and Britannia).

Neil, when you log could I please ask you to put the neutral emperor back to 2 support and move my illegal Limes to Galatia?
57 1/29/2020 6:18:00 AM Turn 3 Red Message Redone my turn, hopefully correctly this time.
I was playing an ancients miniatures system called L'art de la Guerre, which is a pretty nice rules set. I was coming 4th, but had to leave early due to some family commitments.
56 1/28/2020 5:46:00 PM Turn 3 Red Message Hi All,
Sorry for stuffing that up. I'll redo my turn tonight.

Richard
55 1/28/2020 9:20:00 AM Turn 3 Blue Message Welcome back Richard, sounds like the hunting was good for you at Cancon! Did you win the comp you were playing in?

There's a few things with your turn I've spotted which I'll run thru for Brent and Bart to check on as well. Firstly I'm pretty sure you're still owed a legacy point from last turn for your defeat of Posthumous. Brent's already given you one VP for that victory but it should've been two, meaning your legacy counter should start your turn on 9 not 8.

You're also not allowed to build an improvement when active barbarians are afoot. The relevant rules state: "Spend three Populace influence to build an improvement in a province you govern that does not already contain that improvement. The selected province cannot contain a Mob, active Barbarians, Rival Emperor, or armies commanded by other players in the provincial capital.
Each improvement in a province increases the legacy earned by the governor and provides the following bonus:"

So the active barbarians in Gallia prevent the build in this case. You could play "Tribute" if you had that card in hand, inactivate the barbarians and then build Limes... or else you could first drive off the barbarians in combat before building it. The problem in this instance is you only have the means to do the latter (one red AP to fix one legion, then the second red AP to initiate combat. But it's a risky fight, not sure you'd want to do this).

Also I think you have misunderstood the Limes ability somewhat. Limes do indeed flip active barbarians to their inactive side, as you correctly did with the ones going into Pannonia. This essentially gains the player in control of such a province time, allowing them a turn where the barbarians don't activate prior to calculating support in the province in question (first bullet point of 6.4). But if you look at 6.8 The "End of Turn" phase, the second bullet point states: "Flip all inactive barbarians in provinces you govern to their active side." No mention of Limes negating this step.

So this means that had you been able to place the Limes and had it worked to immediately deactivate them, the last thing you'd do this turn would be to activate them once more. My interpretation of the rules is that once reactivated like this, they don't simply inactivate once more the next time it's the turn of the player owning the Limes as Limes only affect "invading" barbarians, not those who've already invaded. You'll note Brent built a Limes in Syria on his last turn but that this hasn't affected the already activated Sassanids there.

But to be double sure I just checked on BGG and found the following:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1794016/limes-and-end-turn-phase

This pretty much confirms it.

You could still build the Limes in Hispania but you'll lose one support in Gallia for the active barbarians. The only way to avoid that I can see is to go the biff as mentioned above, but it's two on two where they hit on 4+, you on 3+ and 5+ as you can only afford to repair one legion and also attack. Also remember defenders win ties tho if you do manage two hits to wipe them out, then this wouldn't matter. Or they might gak their rolls while you roll a streak of 6's... hitting and allowing re rolls. But then the barbarians might also do the same...

Finally, if you do decide to fight them, don't forget to roll your dice separately for the reduced and full strength legions. There's an anomaly with the dice roller in the Vassal TOC module that Brent alerted us too. When it rolls multiple dice, it always lists the results in ascending order, meaning one could nominate their less likely to hit unit as the second die, knowing the module will assign the higher value rolled to the latter unit. I think the only way around this is to always make separate dice rolls for units that hit on different rolls.

You've some tough choices to make Richard, to go along with the tough start you've had in this game.
54 1/28/2020 5:42:00 AM Turn 3 Red Message Hi All,
Back from Cancon where my Ostrogothic army beat a couple of Roman armies and a Carthaginian army.
A lot seems to have happened while I was away. Done my turn and over to the Blues.
53 1/25/2020 4:48:00 AM Turn 3 Green Message At work and canít access Vassal but will recheck Richardís battle Legacy.... yes, it should have been 2.

Iím a big Glorantha fan. I was more of a roleplayer than a board gamer in my youth and Runequest was my favourite by a long mile (a grown upís game for history, anthropology and mythology buffs). My roleplaying days are long behind me but a beautiful new edition of Runequest has just been rereleased and my wife gave me the gorgeous coffee table, two volume, thousand page encyclopaedic Guide to Glorantha for Christmas. We actually knew Greg Stafford quite well, too, and combined with his recent death and the release of all this fantastic new material, Iím feeling very nostalgic. Dragon Pass was his second Gloranthan release and reportedly really cool in a complex, wildly unbalanced but enormously thematic 1970ís wargame style. Very hard to find and very expensive now....so looking forward to getting my hands on it and having a play around with it.
52 1/25/2020 4:11:00 AM Turn 3 Blue Message You made the best of a bad lot there Brent. The Frankish invasion of Britain had ripple effects right across the board to you in Syria. Combined with the Sassanids that's stupendous bad luck to have to contend with. My first game of TOC I got behind early and found it tough coming back. But you have way more idea of the game than I did plus you know the cards better than any of us. But yeah, brutal turn... if it'd been me there'd been some category 5 whinging going on about now!

In my logfile, which is still the cropped board, Richards legacy for defeating Posthumous only went from 7 to 8, not 9. It's two legacy for winning a battle I'm thinking? Or was my LF perhpas inaccurate?

Ambitus seems to be a strong early game card as it's effectively a blue and yellow AP card combined. Perhaps they felt in the original that populace was seen as the poor cousin no one liked. Have you played many pre expansion games Brent? And if so was this the case?

Looking at it, Quaestor can only protect one province wheras Tribune can be used wherever needed and Castra both defends a hit point and builds early legions. Ambitus combines well with Senate cards and is an instant support boost or Militia placement if you can also place an Army in the newly acquired province. I'd say it's now the early go to card in TOC.

I have Dragon Pass somewhere among my several hundred games in the shed. Probably unpunched like the majority of them. It's a really old game Brent, why the interest?

And finally thanks mate for steering us through this. For a relatively simple game, it's nevertheless full of nuance and stumbling blocks for the uninitiated. And tho it's not my typical kind of wargame, I'm really enjoying it. It's a bloody good game!


51 1/25/2020 2:06:00 AM Turn 3 Green Message 12_Green logged.

Red up when you're back from CanCon, Richard. I've given you your additional 2 Legacy for the victory over Postumus.

Struggling....it's a game of tempo and I've already fallen off the curve. Ambitus has been the key card so far. Brilliant early.....one the best from the expansion.

I can feel a new emperor coming this turn.

Bart....you probably know I've been hunting for Dragon Pass for some time. There have been a couple of copies floating around locally...an incomplete $70 Chaosium copy on eBay (incomplete = no map! = unplayable) and an $80 Avalon Hill copy on the Geekmarket in Mortdale (but no response from the seller for weeks so I'm thinking it's a no go). But.....Mark has just picked up a $40 Chaosium copy for me at the second hand market at Cancon. He thinks it's complete and looks in good condition......big score as copies go for up to $300! When I get my head around it we'll have to check out the Vassal module and give it a run.
50 1/25/2020 1:53:00 AM Turn 3 Green Edit Legacy Red: from 4 to 8
Blue: from 5 to 9
Yellow: from 5 to 9
Green: from 4 to 7
49 1/24/2020 5:16:00 PM Turn 3 Yellow Message Turn posted with more action in Africa.
48 1/23/2020 4:52:00 PM Turn 3 Green Message Richard, you missed 2 Legacy for your victory over Postumus. You'd also asked about the neutral Emperor losing support for Postumus?.....no, because unlike players, a neutral emperor has no turn and therefore no Support Check phase....he's only affected by province loss and gain.


47 1/23/2020 2:43:00 PM Turn 3 Blue Message LF TOC_10_Blue is in the box. Over to you Bart and good hunting in Canberra Richard.
46 1/23/2020 9:02:00 AM Turn 3 Green Message Neil can add your Gallic Quaestor when he logs.

Good luck in Canberra and be safe. Looks a bit hairy there fire wise.
45 1/23/2020 4:13:00 AM Turn 3 Red Message Hi All,
Did my turn. I have little idea what I'm doing.
I forgot to put a Questor counter in Gallia.
Over to the Blues
44 1/23/2020 4:12:00 AM Turn 2 Red End Turn
43 1/23/2020 1:24:00 AM Turn 2 Green Message They're there in mine, Neil. They do extend off the edge of the marbled map background (I assume because of the extra space needed when the module was updated for the expansion).

If you drag the right edge of the game window to expand it you should be able to see them.
42 1/23/2020 12:13:00 AM Turn 2 Blue Message Oddly the Vassal window displaying the game board has truncated somewhat in Brents last logfile, meaning I can no longer see the 4 AP cards. This is a long way off having any implications for the game and my assumption is its simply a bug that'll be rectified in Richards next logfile. Anyone else seeing this or is it just me?

Brent is it ok to stack Militia's? I don't see anywhere where you can't but I may have missed something.
41 1/22/2020 5:02:00 PM Turn 2 Green Edit Legacy Red: from 2 to 4
Blue: from 2 to 5
Yellow: from 2 to 5
Green: from 2 to 4
40 1/22/2020 5:01:00 PM Turn 2 Green Message Ah, see it now.

08_Green logged and over to Richard and Red.
39 1/22/2020 4:35:00 PM Turn 2 Green Message Thanks Bart. I can't see your log in Dropbox.
38 1/22/2020 3:54:00 PM Turn 2 Yellow Message I drew my card (pax deorum) and played my slightly bigger turn. Over to Brent (thanks for buffering against the Sassanids!).
37 1/22/2020 1:27:00 AM Turn 2 Green Message Thanks Richard. Jealous. I havenít been able to make it to Cancon for years. Work or family issues always get in the way.....work this year :). Iím not familiar with ADLG. Iím an ancients nerd and briefly dabbled in Warhammer Ancient Battles years ago but miniatures are so time consuming I just couldnít keep it up.....board games are much more manageable :).

Bart, if youíre able to log we might be able to get one more turn in. Donít forget your Pax Deorum card draw.
36 1/21/2020 6:35:00 AM Turn 2 Red Message I was wrong, everything was in the discard pile, so I drew a card. Log 06b.
BTW I'll be away at Cancon for Friday to Monday (playing ADLG ancients) and will be offline until Monday night.
35 1/21/2020 2:15:00 AM Turn 2 Blue Message Don't worry Richard, you've remembered correctly. You've six cards in your discard pile which we can all see... five more in your current hand which we can't see + your available deck which has to be just the single card bringing your tally to 11 (9 starting cards plus the two you've drafted in your two turns which I'm pretty sure you did). So you surmise correctly, you've only one card to choose from to add to your hand. Or in other words Bart can carry on with his extra card draw and turn whenever he wants.
34 1/21/2020 1:59:00 AM Turn 2 Red Message Iím having qualms now. Weíre at a concert tonight and Iíll check when I get home.
33 1/21/2020 1:32:00 AM Turn 2 Green Message Thanks Neil.

Yes, Richard had missed his 2 Legacy. Thanks for fixing it.

Pax Deorum is one of the rare instances I'd just highlighted last post here where we have to break and everyone draw. Might not make much difference now....foreknowledge will have a big impact later when the card values and stakes are higher. Knowing the subsequent Crisis results can also have a significant impact on decisions.

You probably should have stopped and not completed your turn but I think it will be too fiddly to go back and untangle it. I've drawn my card (labeled the log 6a). You should draw, Richard, unless you do have only one card to choose from (we can't see your available pile), in which case it's a moot point. Either way, Bart can just follow on and draw and take his turn when we know what you're doing.
32 1/21/2020 12:36:00 AM Turn 2 Red Message Timing will make no difference to me. I think that I only have 1 card left to choose from.
31 1/21/2020 12:10:00 AM Turn 2 Blue Message Blues turn two is done, ready for review. We've had a Pax Deorum which sounded bad at first but turns out it's actually quite beneficial to all of us allowing everyone to automatically draft a card from their available pile into their hand. I'd stated in the logfile how I didn't see any problem with players simply doing this when their turn comes around, before realising this will give an advantage to players seeing the evolution of the game state before making their card selections. So I'm thinking this might be one of those rare times we do interrupt the flow of the game for everyone (except me of course) to make their extra card choices. If you normally play it Brent that players simply take the extra card when it's their turn, allowing for that bit of extra game state knowledge in order to minimise logfiles and keep the game flowing, I'm fine with that. If however we're meant to now make those selections before Bart carries on with his turn, then I suppose it's now the draw an extra card phase!
30 1/20/2020 5:35:00 PM Turn 2 Green Message Perfect, thanks Richard.

You're good to go, Neil.

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